Click on top engine
- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
05 Aug 2025 20:26
The witness marks on your cam cover webbings are positioned about where the red lines are on the picsbelow. The cam chain should be well clear of the cam cover at that point.
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- Fox
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Re: Click on top engine
05 Aug 2025 20:40
Yes i replaced the old top idler be sure that the sprocket was good by this one on my rebuild.
on torque for the cams i m at 87 so under specs.
the top cover look to be from a 900
i will try to double the head gasket tomorrow and listen
on torque for the cams i m at 87 so under specs.
the top cover look to be from a 900
i will try to double the head gasket tomorrow and listen
1978 KZ1000-B2 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
05 Aug 2025 23:44 - 06 Aug 2025 00:27
Yes, that's a 900 cover which is why it doesn't fit properly and is the cause of your issue.
If your going to use it then remove some of the webbing to clear the chain.
This is a 1000a1 cover. I believe yours should be the same.
If your going to use it then remove some of the webbing to clear the chain.
This is a 1000a1 cover. I believe yours should be the same.
Last edit: 06 Aug 2025 00:27 by Warren3200gt.
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- Wookie58
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Re: Click on top engine
06 Aug 2025 00:40I assume you mean double the "cam cover gasket" ?Yes i replaced the old top idler be sure that the sprocket was good by this one on my rebuild.
on torque for the cams i m at 87 so under specs.
the top cover look to be from a 900
i will try to double the head gasket tomorrow and listen
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
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- sf4t7
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Re: Click on top engine
06 Aug 2025 05:14 - 06 Aug 2025 05:28
Just happen to have 900 and 1000 valve covers to compare...
the two covers don't appear to be different where your scrape marks are. The difference between them seems to be only in the sides of the "tower" where there are reliefs in the 1000 cover for the axle bolt thru the idler. (the other difference is external - on the ends of the 1000 cover there is a half moon shaped feature which is not on the 900 cover. Not relative here.)
But as Warren showed, the chain shouldn't be near the cover in the area where the scrapes are. Maybe something else is going on.
the two covers don't appear to be different where your scrape marks are. The difference between them seems to be only in the sides of the "tower" where there are reliefs in the 1000 cover for the axle bolt thru the idler. (the other difference is external - on the ends of the 1000 cover there is a half moon shaped feature which is not on the 900 cover. Not relative here.)
But as Warren showed, the chain shouldn't be near the cover in the area where the scrapes are. Maybe something else is going on.
Scotty
1974 Z1A
Yoshimura 987
welded Z1 crank
Andrews 1X Cams
Delkevic 4 into 1
Superbike bars
530 conversion
1974 Z1A
Yoshimura 987
welded Z1 crank
Andrews 1X Cams
Delkevic 4 into 1
Superbike bars
530 conversion
Last edit: 06 Aug 2025 05:28 by sf4t7.
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- Wookie58
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Re: Click on top engine
06 Aug 2025 10:02
Do you have any pictures of your bike with the idler in place (those witness marks almost look as if the chain is running over not under the idler gear ?)
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
06 Aug 2025 10:13 - 06 Aug 2025 10:14Previously asked the same Guy,Do you have any pictures of your bike with the idler in place (those witness marks almost look as if the chain is running over not under the idler gear ?)
A pic of the head with the cam cover removed will beat a thousand words.
Last edit: 06 Aug 2025 10:14 by Warren3200gt.
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Re: Click on top engine
06 Aug 2025 11:51 - 06 Aug 2025 12:25
You know, the more I listen to your original video the more I'm convinced it's a worn bucket tube on the head, on the inlet cam, either cylinder 3 or 4 or both.
I don't see how the engine could even run with the cam chain making those witness marks on the cam cover I don't know how they occurred, but I highly doubt it was caused by the cam chain with the engine running. Maybe when the cams were released and stacked on the center tunnel then the cover was rested over them to stop dirt ingress over night. 🤷.
When you had the motor disassembled did you get the head bead/vapour blasted? Did the operators seal the oil galleries to stop media ingress? Did you check all the oil galleries were clear prior to re assembly? A blocked oil gallery feeding inlet cam bearings 7/8 would starve the buckets and cam shells of oil and cause wear very quickly.
Normally beside each cam bearing a pool of oil collects around each bucket to lubricate the bucket as it slides up and down. If there is a pool of oil collected around each bucket EXCEPT 7/8 then they are oil starved.
If it were the cam chain hitting the cover I'd expect a continuous rattle opposed to the metallic ticking evident on the video. That suggests to me it's in time with the cam rotation / bucket deppresion on cylinders 3 & 4 or both.
Is the same ticking evident if viewed from the other side on cylinders inlet 1 & 2?
If it IS the cam chain noise would be equally loud regardless of where you listen from.
I had exactly that happen on a 900 I worked on, although it was number 4 exhaust bucket.
I proved to myself the oil starvation by tucking a piece of card between the head and carbs then flexing it over the head and back down between the head and frame with the cam cover removed I fired it up and as the lobes spun they flung oil onto the card. All except number 4 cylinder exhaust Vale. Which was running dry.
Bit heath Robinson but a simple test to prove either way without taking the top end apart unnessecarily.
I don't see how the engine could even run with the cam chain making those witness marks on the cam cover I don't know how they occurred, but I highly doubt it was caused by the cam chain with the engine running. Maybe when the cams were released and stacked on the center tunnel then the cover was rested over them to stop dirt ingress over night. 🤷.
When you had the motor disassembled did you get the head bead/vapour blasted? Did the operators seal the oil galleries to stop media ingress? Did you check all the oil galleries were clear prior to re assembly? A blocked oil gallery feeding inlet cam bearings 7/8 would starve the buckets and cam shells of oil and cause wear very quickly.
Normally beside each cam bearing a pool of oil collects around each bucket to lubricate the bucket as it slides up and down. If there is a pool of oil collected around each bucket EXCEPT 7/8 then they are oil starved.
If it were the cam chain hitting the cover I'd expect a continuous rattle opposed to the metallic ticking evident on the video. That suggests to me it's in time with the cam rotation / bucket deppresion on cylinders 3 & 4 or both.
Is the same ticking evident if viewed from the other side on cylinders inlet 1 & 2?
If it IS the cam chain noise would be equally loud regardless of where you listen from.
I had exactly that happen on a 900 I worked on, although it was number 4 exhaust bucket.
I proved to myself the oil starvation by tucking a piece of card between the head and carbs then flexing it over the head and back down between the head and frame with the cam cover removed I fired it up and as the lobes spun they flung oil onto the card. All except number 4 cylinder exhaust Vale. Which was running dry.
Bit heath Robinson but a simple test to prove either way without taking the top end apart unnessecarily.
Last edit: 06 Aug 2025 12:25 by Warren3200gt.
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Re: Click on top engine
Yesterday 17:58
Ok so, i removed the top idler tower and cleaned it. Do a manual tensioner and apply a little bit of liquid gasket under the cover where was the marks.
then tested it. Always the click but now i m sure its not the chain or the cover…
because chain tension is ajusted and nothing touch the cover inside.
i removed the cams, the buckets, put oul on the srings, and put air pressure on the valve springs. Then it was possible to test if the oil hole was open from valve 3 to 4.
to me its a bend valve.
but here is my last video
i will do some test in more but the think i have to replace at least 1 valve
open to last ideas before doing it this week end
thank you
youtube.com/shorts/whVv66HOnPw?si=IvdOcfg3rLzyBUv_
then tested it. Always the click but now i m sure its not the chain or the cover…
because chain tension is ajusted and nothing touch the cover inside.
i removed the cams, the buckets, put oul on the srings, and put air pressure on the valve springs. Then it was possible to test if the oil hole was open from valve 3 to 4.
to me its a bend valve.
but here is my last video
i will do some test in more but the think i have to replace at least 1 valve
open to last ideas before doing it this week end
thank you
youtube.com/shorts/whVv66HOnPw?si=IvdOcfg3rLzyBUv_
1978 KZ1000-B2 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
1977 kz1000-B1 LTD
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- sf4t7
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Re: Click on top engine
Yesterday 19:18
If you think it may be a bent valve, a compression test on each cylinder can tell you where.
Scotty
1974 Z1A
Yoshimura 987
welded Z1 crank
Andrews 1X Cams
Delkevic 4 into 1
Superbike bars
530 conversion
1974 Z1A
Yoshimura 987
welded Z1 crank
Andrews 1X Cams
Delkevic 4 into 1
Superbike bars
530 conversion
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- Warren3200gt
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Re: Click on top engine
Yesterday 19:24 - Yesterday 20:21
On your new video it sounds like it could just be excessive valve gaps and cam lobe slap. When you shimmed the gaps what measurement did you set them to.?
Confirm you have oil pools around each bucket.
See pictures below. The second pic shows lubrication of the bucket by an oil pool.
The first shows a dry bucket.
If yours are dry then the cross drill oil gallery could be blocked.
Confirm you have oil pools around each bucket.
See pictures below. The second pic shows lubrication of the bucket by an oil pool.
The first shows a dry bucket.
If yours are dry then the cross drill oil gallery could be blocked.
Last edit: Yesterday 20:21 by Warren3200gt.
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- Wookie58
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Re: Click on top engine
Yesterday 23:57
I would suggest a "leakage" test before you dive in. Any issues with a valve you will hear air in the exhaust or airbox
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/617631...-82-begins?start=192
kzrider.com/filebase-alias?view=download...d-fault-diagnosis&ca
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