Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil

  • SWest
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11 Aug 2021 10:33 #853577 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
All the cam bearings are the same. They go in one way. You could be seeing drain back. I wouldn't worry about it. I see the same thing with my engine. I installed APE studs and drilled the galleys larger to provide more oil to the head.. Same thing. Oil drains faster when hot. I'd put it back together and RIDE THE PISS OUT OF IT. 
Steve 
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11 Aug 2021 12:16 - 11 Aug 2021 12:21 #853592 by Scirocco
Replied by Scirocco on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
Remove your cams and check the EX cam bering condition. If the EX cam berings are out of spec or worne, a lot of oil pressure and flow can get lost/waste there.
The IN cam bearings are the last on the top end to get feed with oil. Just my two cent brainfart....
Sometimes under unknown conditions cam bearings can shift out of the middle and block/reduce the oil feed bore in the cam tower.
Last edit: 11 Aug 2021 12:21 by Scirocco.
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12 Aug 2021 07:43 #853641 by Rick H.
Replied by Rick H. on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
With your concerns it sounds to me like a clearance check of the cam bearings using Plastigauge might be in order.  That's about the only way you will know for sure what clearances you will have.  This will also give you another opportunity to check cam bearing condition.  As I am sure you already know, be careful with torque applied to the bolts.

Rick H.

Rick H.

1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000A1

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  • SWest
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12 Aug 2021 09:24 #853649 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
Bearing clearance is .001-.006". That is a lot of wiggle room. 
Steve

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  • Robb2018
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12 Aug 2021 14:38 - 12 Aug 2021 14:40 #853656 by Robb2018
Replied by Robb2018 on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
I just drained the oil, dropped the pan, checked the screen, then removed both cams and checked that the hole in the bearing lined up with each oil passage, all good. There actually was a little oil pooled in the compartment next to the ones with the buckets.  Blew some air in the #1 cylinder intake cam oil passage...  was clear, even shot a little stream of atomized oil out the passage on #1 exhaust oil passage. Put it all together and ran the starter for 30 seconds with no plugs.  Still didn't seem to draw much oil up into the compartments. If anyone is planning on checking valve clearances in the near future, I'd love to see how much oil you've got pooled up around the buckets after the bike's been sitting for a day or so.  I'm really not comfortable running this motor until I know for certain if there's a problem here or not.  I even asked a long time Jap bike mechanic who goes way back to having been head mechanic on the Honda team back in the 80s. Was surprised when he said he really couldn't remember.  Of all the times he's adjusted the valves on old Kawasakis he can't remember how much oil there was pooled up around the cam lobes.  He said it's just not something you'd normally notice. 

KZ900; Z1
Last edit: 12 Aug 2021 14:40 by Robb2018.

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12 Aug 2021 14:58 #853659 by Mikaw
Replied by Mikaw on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
Not specifically taken to show oil amount but this was when I was shimming my valves this past spring. You can see oil covering the cams, chains, and idler gears. 


1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
1980 KZ 750 E1
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
Jimi Hendrix.
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    12 Aug 2021 15:06 #853660 by SWest
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    • Street Fighter LTD
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    12 Aug 2021 15:28 - 13 Aug 2021 07:37 #853664 by Street Fighter LTD
    Replied by Street Fighter LTD on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
    So here's a thought .
    Everything discussed has been  about the oil supply to the  cams. Right ?
    OK
      Do you know where the oil drains to.??
    Pass the lifter bores to the bottom of the spring seat is the drain to the center of the motor chain gallery. Right ??
    Your first post was a statement  of bike was run then sat for a day on center stand . Plenty of time  for oil to do its job and gravity drain  to bottom  of lifter bores.
    and return to the sump....Why not just squirt some motor oil  on to the lifter shim  and see how long it sits there. Im guessing not to long 
    Give it a try
    Dave
     


    Original owner 78 1000 LTD
    Mr Turbo Race Kit, MTC 1075 Turbo pistons by PitStop Performance , Falicon Ultra Lite Super Crank, APE everything. Les Holt @ PDM's Billet Goodies . Frame by Chuck Kurzawa @ Logghe Chassis . Deep sump 5qt oil pan. RIP Bill Hahn
    Last edit: 13 Aug 2021 07:37 by Street Fighter LTD.
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    12 Aug 2021 18:38 #853674 by Robb2018
    Replied by Robb2018 on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
    Steve is probably right.  I think tomorrow I'll set the valve cover in place to keep the oil from going all over and run the motor for a few minutes, then remove the cover and see if those compartments are dry... like they are after I spin the motor with the starter. I'd think after a few minutes the buckets and lobes should all have a healthy coating of oil on them, if not pooled up a bit around the buckets.

    KZ900; Z1

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    • SWest
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    12 Aug 2021 19:30 #853677 by SWest
    Replied by SWest on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
    Put a couple bolts in before you start it or you'll have a mess
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    13 Aug 2021 17:26 #853737 by Robb2018
    Replied by Robb2018 on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
    OK....  I did that.  Put the pipes back on, put the cam cover on, secured with 4 screws, started bike, ran it for 2 minutes, quick pulled the cover off and checked it out.  There's plenty of oil getting through those passages.  There still is considerably more oil around the exhaust cam and #4 in particular but on the intake side, the side I was concerned with, there's a pool in each chamber around each bucket and in the chambers in between the buckets. #1 cylinder is the lightest but there is oil pooling around all the buckets on both cams.  So this means the bearings are getting oil through the passages and it's getting to the buckets and the cam lobes. I guess spinning it with the plugs out doesn't produce enough oil pressure to really flood the cam chambers. I'm still going to keep an eye on it because I would be happier if I saw just a little more oil around the left side of the motor but again, what's normal?  No one seems to know.  Even the most knowledgeable motorcycle mechanic I know couldn't really give me a definitive answer to that. BUT... kind of chased my tail a little on this again, just like with the cam timing but as I've gotten older, and fairly recently actually, I've stopped jumping head first into these things without being sure what I was doing. I'd rather be a pain in the ass, asking stupid questions to you all than to end up with a blown motor because I wasn't sure if it had a problem or not.  Anyway... again, maybe someone in a similar situation can learn from this thread. Thanks again for all your help and great advice as usual.

    KZ900; Z1

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    • SWest
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    13 Aug 2021 18:32 #853745 by SWest
    Replied by SWest on topic Cam don't seem to be getting enough oil
    I don't understand that being the exhaust cams are further down the line than the intakes. The oil comes up the passages on the intake side then across the head to the exhaust side, The passages going down amount to dead holes. I've noticed unequal amounts of oil in each pockets but never the same ones. It could be the empty ones were the result of the valve being at the bottom when the engine was turned off and didn't have the time to fill again. Asking questions isn't being a PITA its how to learn and verify your work. 
    Glad you found your answer now RIDE THE PISS OUTOF IT. 
    I do. 
    Steve . 
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