Repairing cam cap bolt holes

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17 Jul 2021 16:28 #851936 by rokit_armor
Repairing cam cap bolt holes was created by rokit_armor
I recently had my head over to the shop for a very nice valve job, about $800 in p&l. During reassembly, I had a handful of cam cap bolts pop their threads. I went ahead and helicoiled them, and now a few of the helicoils are popping their threads as well, along with a keen-sert I had installed to repair an already busted helicoil. 
I've got two stripped helicoils and one stripped keensert. I can install new keenserts for the helicoil, I'm just not sure what to do with the stripped keensert issue, short of filling the hole with weld and tapping new.
Any sage advice to save this head?

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  • TexasKZ
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17 Jul 2021 18:35 #851949 by TexasKZ
Replied by TexasKZ on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
Are you sure they are being torqued to the proper setting? The fsm  has a misprint in it. As I recall, the proper torque for them is 70- 80 INCH pounds.

1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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17 Jul 2021 20:05 #851951 by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
The manual I have states 12 ft/lbs, which does seem a bit excessive.

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17 Jul 2021 20:26 - 17 Jul 2021 20:27 #851952 by Mikaw
Replied by Mikaw on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
The 900 manual calls out 95 inch pounds. The 1000 calls out 95-113 inch pounds. I know the experienced engine builders will use less. Hopefully they will post. 

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Last edit: 17 Jul 2021 20:27 by Mikaw.

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17 Jul 2021 21:40 - 17 Jul 2021 21:40 #851954 by TexasKZ
Replied by TexasKZ on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes

The manual I have states 12 ft/lbs, which does seem a bit excessive.

 
Yes, that is a misprint and that is why they were stripping out. Twelve pound feet is far too much for such a small bolt, especially when screwed into aluminum. If you look at the general torque table near the front of the manual, you will see much safer numbers. 

1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
Last edit: 17 Jul 2021 21:40 by TexasKZ.

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17 Jul 2021 21:50 #851955 by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
52-78 in/lb per the chart in the front, 1/3 to 1/2 of the torque called out. That's one heck of a misprint...
Now that I've got that figured out, what should I do about my stripped out keensert? Would it be a terrible idea to use a 10mmx1.25 helicoil and reinstall the keensert in that?

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18 Jul 2021 06:45 - 18 Jul 2021 07:16 #851961 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationBefore you get into more trouble you need to post the diameter of the insert that failed. They are a special size and pitch so that could be where you went wrong. There's limited room so choosing the right insert is vital at this point. I had the same problem but with a bolt in the case. Went with a m8Xm6 insert as a m10 would have been the last resort and not much meat left in the case. Whatever you decide to use precision is required.
Steve 

Start at 8:19 


Last edit: 18 Jul 2021 07:16 by SWest.
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18 Jul 2021 09:35 #851968 by daveo
Replied by daveo on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
Follow the advice of SWest on this...
Got a M6 TimeSert Big-Sert kit for a couple cam-end plug bolt holes after Helicoils failed and pulled out.  Haven't needed it since, but it was the only logical repair system I could think of.
 
I always use clamps to pull the cam caps tight to the head, and then thread each bolt in by hand.  With each cap still clamped, I torque each bolt to spec.  Only then do the clamps come off.

 

1982 KZ1100-A2

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18 Jul 2021 10:56 #851970 by ThatGPzGuy
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes

Follow the advice of SWest on this...
Got a M6 TimeSert Big-Sert kit for a couple cam-end plug bolt holes after Helicoils failed and pulled out.  Haven't needed it since, but it was the only logical repair system I could think of.
 
I always use clamps to pull the cam caps tight to the head, and then thread each bolt in by hand.  With each cap still clamped, I torque each bolt to spec.  Only then do the clamps come off.


 
^^This. The only time I stripped a thread is when I tried to pull the cam down using the bolts. You only have to make that mistake once. 

Jim
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19 Jul 2021 19:13 #852071 by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationAlways appreciate your advice Steve. It is a keensert that requires an M10 x 1.25 standard thread



I'll also follow the advice of clamping the caps down first, just gotta figure out how. 
 

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19 Jul 2021 20:20 #852079 by SWest

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20 Jul 2021 00:34 - 20 Jul 2021 00:36 #852088 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes

IS THERE ENOUGH MATERIAL?
There's just enough room to drill and tap M10.
It comes very close to the cam shells though so has to be accurate.
I've repaired many by fitting home made M10 steel inserts that i tap back to M6.

 

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Last edit: 20 Jul 2021 00:36 by zed1015.

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