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Repairing cam cap bolt holes
- rokit_armor
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17 Jul 2021 16:28 #851936
by rokit_armor
Repairing cam cap bolt holes was created by rokit_armor
I recently had my head over to the shop for a very nice valve job, about $800 in p&l. During reassembly, I had a handful of cam cap bolts pop their threads. I went ahead and helicoiled them, and now a few of the helicoils are popping their threads as well, along with a keen-sert I had installed to repair an already busted helicoil.
I've got two stripped helicoils and one stripped keensert. I can install new keenserts for the helicoil, I'm just not sure what to do with the stripped keensert issue, short of filling the hole with weld and tapping new.
Any sage advice to save this head?
I've got two stripped helicoils and one stripped keensert. I can install new keenserts for the helicoil, I'm just not sure what to do with the stripped keensert issue, short of filling the hole with weld and tapping new.
Any sage advice to save this head?
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- TexasKZ
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17 Jul 2021 18:35 #851949
by TexasKZ
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
Replied by TexasKZ on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
Are you sure they are being torqued to the proper setting? The fsm has a misprint in it. As I recall, the proper torque for them is 70- 80 INCH pounds.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
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- rokit_armor
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17 Jul 2021 20:05 #851951
by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
The manual I have states 12 ft/lbs, which does seem a bit excessive.
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- Mikaw
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17 Jul 2021 20:26 - 17 Jul 2021 20:27 #851952
by Mikaw
1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
1980 KZ 750 E1
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
Jimi Hendrix.
Replied by Mikaw on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
The 900 manual calls out 95 inch pounds. The 1000 calls out 95-113 inch pounds. I know the experienced engine builders will use less. Hopefully they will post.
1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
1980 KZ 750 E1
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
Jimi Hendrix.
Last edit: 17 Jul 2021 20:27 by Mikaw.
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- TexasKZ
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17 Jul 2021 21:40 - 17 Jul 2021 21:40 #851954
by TexasKZ
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
Replied by TexasKZ on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
Yes, that is a misprint and that is why they were stripping out. Twelve pound feet is far too much for such a small bolt, especially when screwed into aluminum. If you look at the general torque table near the front of the manual, you will see much safer numbers.The manual I have states 12 ft/lbs, which does seem a bit excessive.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
Last edit: 17 Jul 2021 21:40 by TexasKZ.
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- rokit_armor
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17 Jul 2021 21:50 #851955
by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
52-78 in/lb per the chart in the front, 1/3 to 1/2 of the torque called out. That's one heck of a misprint...
Now that I've got that figured out, what should I do about my stripped out keensert? Would it be a terrible idea to use a 10mmx1.25 helicoil and reinstall the keensert in that?
Now that I've got that figured out, what should I do about my stripped out keensert? Would it be a terrible idea to use a 10mmx1.25 helicoil and reinstall the keensert in that?
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- SWest
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18 Jul 2021 06:45 - 18 Jul 2021 07:16 #851961
by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationBefore you get into more trouble you need to post the diameter of the insert that failed. They are a special size and pitch so that could be where you went wrong. There's limited room so choosing the right insert is vital at this point. I had the same problem but with a bolt in the case. Went with a m8Xm6 insert as a m10 would have been the last resort and not much meat left in the case. Whatever you decide to use precision is required.
Steve
Start at 8:19
Steve
Start at 8:19
Last edit: 18 Jul 2021 07:16 by SWest.
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18 Jul 2021 09:35 #851968
by daveo
1982 KZ1100-A2
Replied by daveo on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
Follow the advice of SWest on this...
Got a M6 TimeSert Big-Sert kit for a couple cam-end plug bolt holes after Helicoils failed and pulled out. Haven't needed it since, but it was the only logical repair system I could think of.
I always use clamps to pull the cam caps tight to the head, and then thread each bolt in by hand. With each cap still clamped, I torque each bolt to spec. Only then do the clamps come off.
Got a M6 TimeSert Big-Sert kit for a couple cam-end plug bolt holes after Helicoils failed and pulled out. Haven't needed it since, but it was the only logical repair system I could think of.
I always use clamps to pull the cam caps tight to the head, and then thread each bolt in by hand. With each cap still clamped, I torque each bolt to spec. Only then do the clamps come off.
1982 KZ1100-A2
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- ThatGPzGuy
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18 Jul 2021 10:56 #851970
by ThatGPzGuy
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
Replied by ThatGPzGuy on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
^^This. The only time I stripped a thread is when I tried to pull the cam down using the bolts. You only have to make that mistake once.Follow the advice of SWest on this...
Got a M6 TimeSert Big-Sert kit for a couple cam-end plug bolt holes after Helicoils failed and pulled out. Haven't needed it since, but it was the only logical repair system I could think of.
I always use clamps to pull the cam caps tight to the head, and then thread each bolt in by hand. With each cap still clamped, I torque each bolt to spec. Only then do the clamps come off.
Jim
North GA
2016 Yamaha FJR1300ES
1982 GPz750 R1
1974 Kawasaki H1
1976 Kawasaki KZ400
1979 Yamaha XS650 cafe'
2001 KZ1000P
2001 Yamaha YZ426
1981 Honda XR200 stroked in an '89 CR125 chassis
1965 Mustang
1967 Triumph GT6
1976 Bronco
"If you didn't build it, it's not really yours"
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- rokit_armor
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19 Jul 2021 19:13 #852071
by rokit_armor
Replied by rokit_armor on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationAlways appreciate your advice Steve. It is a keensert that requires an M10 x 1.25 standard thread
I'll also follow the advice of clamping the caps down first, just gotta figure out how.
I'll also follow the advice of clamping the caps down first, just gotta figure out how.
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- SWest
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19 Jul 2021 20:20 #852079
by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
IS THERE ENOUGH MATERIAL?
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- zed1015
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20 Jul 2021 00:34 - 20 Jul 2021 00:36 #852088
by zed1015
It comes very close to the cam shells though so has to be accurate.
I've repaired many by fitting home made M10 steel inserts that i tap back to M6.
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Replied by zed1015 on topic Repairing cam cap bolt holes
There's just enough room to drill and tap M10.IS THERE ENOUGH MATERIAL?
It comes very close to the cam shells though so has to be accurate.
I've repaired many by fitting home made M10 steel inserts that i tap back to M6.
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Last edit: 20 Jul 2021 00:36 by zed1015.
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