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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 10:45 #846383

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Hey guys, so since I've got two spare 1000 J heads I was looking at getting some Neway cutters and try to cut my own valve seats on those heads, gain a tool and a skill.
Been reading through as many posts as I can find and gathering information, I'm pretty confident I can do it, at least in a passable manner (hence the two heads for practice).
I was curious what size cutters anyone who has experience with them has been using, I'm aware the angles needed at 30,45, and 60 but just want to make sure I order the correct size cutters.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 14:19 #846400

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You need cutters sized to suit the diameter of the valve seats and you also need to be very careful not to increase the valve stem heights beyond their service limits otherwise you will not achieve adequate valve clearances.
 

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 14:42 #846402

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Thanks for the response! I've got two heads that are just spares with valves and everything I can play with to get the hang of it. Though they are good heads and I'd prefer not to mess them up it seems there's a bit of a learning curve to using them and getting good results. Everywhere I look I see mixed reviews on them. Consensus seems to be 'they'll do', with some practice and learning their eccentricities so to speak. Do you have much experience yourself using them?

I was hoping someone had part numbers that would work for intake and exhaust, so I'd only have to buy one size that would work for both but just reading more in to it and visiting the Neway website and doing more reading kinda seems I should just get an appropriate size for each side.
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 14:47 #846403

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more than twenty years ago i bought a new set of Neway valve seat cutters for the VW and BMW engines with 6, 7, 8 mm valve guide pilots. Not a cheap investment but works great for me. Be careful, the sharp tungsten carbide blades bites off the valve seat metal like butter. Do only 2 -3 turns first to resurface the valve seats.

 
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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 15:59 #846408

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 Do you have much experience yourself using them?

I was hoping someone had part numbers that would work for intake and exhaust, so I'd only have to buy one size that would work for both but just reading more in to it and visiting the Neway website and doing more reading kinda seems I should just get an appropriate size for each side.

Yes! I use them myself. Done tons of heads.
You need separate cutters for inlet and exhaust..
You can get away with 2 for each seat.
One is double sided 30/45 and the other 60.
They are simple to use but you need to be conscious of what you are doing and keep very light even pressure central to the mandrel.
With new blades just the weight of the cutter is enough.
Put engineers blue or black marker pen on the seat before the first 45 cut.
A light turn of the cutter barely touching the seat will reveal if the seat is off centre to the guide.
Do not let the cutter follow the original cut unless it is already running true.
The latter is more applicable when cutting seats from newly fitted guides.
With the 45 you only need enough cut to clean the seat and as Scirocco already stated a couple of turns is all it may take.
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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway 08 Apr 2021 16:50 #846412

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The Neeway angle convention is opposite that of Kawasaki.  For example, a cutter Kawasaki denotes a 30 will be a 60 in Neeway's nomenclature.  

I concur with keeping the hand pressure directly over the arbor axis.  You need to really pay attention to assure you are not applying a bending moment when you turn the cutter.

I found they cut real fast when the blades are fresh, but they dull quickly.  I did a couple of Suzuki GS heads and the cutters dulled noticeably during the process.  I'm not sure if Suzuki uses harder material than Kawasaki for the seats but that's my experience.
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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 17:45 #846415

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Thanks guys! Your opinions and experience build my confidence in a purchase.
Starting out I'll definitely do a couple turns at a time, you can always take more off. And I plan on using marker with every step if only to visualize what I'm taking off. I'll document and add to this thread as I do, hopefully it'll be informative to others.

Zed1015, I've seen a couple threads where Larry had recommended hitting the 60 first to check for concentricity, just to know where you're at. Then wiping out the 45 completely with the 60, then putting in the 30 and then adding your 45 and adjusting from there just to avoid following a crooked seat, especially with new guides. This is pretty much the opposite of what i read in the fsm. What's your guys' opinion on how to go about it? I'm sure it could just be the difference between new seats with new guides and touching up old seats with the same guides but id love the input. 

Nessism, I haven't looked at the oem parts that much. Are you saying that, for example, the part referenced in the fsm as the 'outside cuter' (exhaust 57001-1121) kawasaki would call a 60 degree cutter and Neway would call a 30 degree cutter? 
 
1983 KZ750 LTD
1982 KZ1100 A2 Cafe
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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 19:06 #846418

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Zed1015, I've seen a couple threads where Larry had recommended hitting the 60 first to check for concentricity, just to know where you're at. Then wiping out the 45 completely with the 60, then putting in the 30 and then adding your 45 and adjusting from there just to avoid following a crooked seat, especially with new guides. This is pretty much the opposite of what i read in the fsm. What's your guys' opinion on how to go about it? I'm sure it could just be the difference between new seats with new guides and touching up old seats with the same guides but id love the input. 

Nessism, I haven't looked at the oem parts that much. Are you saying that, for example, the part referenced in the fsm as the 'outside cuter' (exhaust 57001-1121) kawasaki would call a 60 degree cutter and Neway would call a 30 degree cutter? 
  

I'd follow the factory manual method; do the 45 first and then the top and bottom cut to narrow and center the contact patch.

The top cut in Neway nomenclature would be a 30, in Kawasaki it's a 60.

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 05:44 #846425

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I use a similar cutter setup for cutting muzzle crowns on rifle and some pistol barrels.  It works great and it works fast.  The kit supplied cutters will give a true 90 degree cut or an 11 degree cut.  I was fortunate in that I located a gunsmith who uses the same setup to crown muzzles and he showed me how he does it and the best techniques that he uses.  I read alot about this process and watched untold videos about it, but until I saw it done in person and did a couple of practice runs under the guidance of the gunsmith I wasn't sure I would do a proper job of this.  It isn't hard, nor easy and as has been said there is a learning curve involved.  Best bet is to find someone that can go through all the steps involved and work on some really trashed heads to practice on before tackling a head that can be salvaged.  In my case I didn't want to risk trashing an expensive barrel to learn on.

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 08:36 #846430

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Yes! I use them myself. Done tons of heads.
You need separate cutters for inlet and exhaust..
You can get away with 2 for each seat.
One is double sided 30/45 and the other 60.
.



Is 1000 valves bigger than 650 valves?
Curious if set of cutters can be picked to cover both intake/exhaust. For example, 650 valves is 28 and 33 mm, probably need cutters covering 20 to 35 or something like this..

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 08:52 #846432

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Yes! I use them myself. Done tons of heads.
You need separate cutters for inlet and exhaust..
You can get away with 2 for each seat.
One is double sided 30/45 and the other 60.
.



Is 1000 valves bigger than 650 valves?
Curious if set of cutters can be picked to cover both intake/exhaust. For example, 650 valves is 28 and 33 mm, probably need cutters covering 20 to 35 or something like this..

Early 900/1000 stock valves are 30/36 , later J 32/37 and Unitrac 32.5 /38.
The Neway cutter blades are adjustable in slots on the body and will cover those sizes and the 650's .

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Cutting Valve Seat with Neway Yesterday 09:01 #846433

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Yes! I use them myself. Done tons of heads.
You need separate cutters for inlet and exhaust..
You can get away with 2 for each seat.
One is double sided 30/45 and the other 60.
.



Is 1000 valves bigger than 650 valves?
Curious if set of cutters can be picked to cover both intake/exhaust. For example, 650 valves is 28 and 33 mm, probably need cutters covering 20 to 35 or something like this..

Early 900/1000 stock valves are 30/36 , later J 32/37 and Unitrac 32.5 /38.
The Neway cutter blades are adjustable in slots on the body and will cover those sizes and the 650's .

I am confused. You said - different cutters needed for intake and exhaust. I assume because of sizes. But if they are adjustable?
For example, CU230
www.newaymfg.com/parts/CU230

45 degree side
Operating range 28.5-37
Blade adjust 18.4-36.8

Should I look for "Blade adjust" number? If so, it should cover pretty much everything. But if it's "operating range" - then who knows?

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