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TOPIC: Cop bike top end sound, tensioner?

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 07:18 #819281

  • Flatblackobsession
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KZRiders,
I have a 1988 KZ1000 P, and I'm trying to figure out what to do with it. Once it warms up, it has top end noise, like either very loose valves or a loose timing chain.

I am going to pull the valve cover and inspect the valve clearances. But, I suspect I will find that this is a timing chain in need of adjustment.

The timing chain adjuster on this is the stock automatic adjuster. I understand these can get weak and stop doing their job properly over time.

Is there any way to manually adjust with one of the late-1980's automatic tensioners (doesn't seem to have the same set screw hole as the old ones)?

Or, is there a way to rebuild one of these automatic tensioners?

Bottom line is this: I'd like to find a cheap way to take up any slack in the timing chain in order to troubleshoot. I don't want to buy $60 APE manual tensioner just to troubleshoot this issue. Know what I mean?

Also, if anyone out there has a functioning tensioner for this bike that they don't need, or would sell/trade, would you please PM me?

Thanks.

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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 08:40 #819289

  • martin_csr
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With the valve cover in place, you could remove, clean & inspect the tensioner, and check the free spring length >> the manual probably has the specs. Get a new tensioner gasket or o-ring beforehand. I lubricate the tensioner with Permatex ultra disk brake caliper grease in the little packets. Before removing the tensioner, I turn the crankshaft to line up the timing advancer T mark. probably not necessary, but that's what I do, since I usually service the timing advancer at the same time.

Warning: see tensioner warnings in the manual. Do not remove the tensioner body bolts part way, then retighten.
Before reinstalling the tensioner, remove the cap & cross-wedge. This will allow the pushrod to float.
If the cross-wedge is in place while tightening the tensioner bolts, the cam chain could get stretched, so remove the cross-wedge beforehand.

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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 08:54 #819290

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Thanks. How do you service the tensioner once you've inspected it?

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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 09:03 #819291

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Clean & lubricate it. The manual may specify some sort of lubricant, but I use the synthetic brake caliper grease mentioned above. I believe it's a molybdenum disulfide grease.
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 09:30 #819293

  • daveo
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This ebay listing includes a few pictures, and may be a decent replacement if needed. Would need new o-ring, Kawasaki part number: 670E2022



_________________________________________________________________________ ____ ____ ____ _ _ _ _

View Kawasaki part diagram below:
www.cmsnl.com/kawasaki-kz1000p3-police-1...13.html#.XkbZ47h7mt8


:)
1982 KZ1100A-2 (sort-of)
1135 since 10/25/19
January 2016 BOTM
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Last edit: by daveo.

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 10:10 #819296

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Thanks. Has anyone ever had any luck replacing the spring? If so, where did you get the replacement spring/other parts?

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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 10:59 #819303

  • Rick H.
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Look at Partzilla. The spring is part number 92081-1302 and cost is $2.76. Personally I would check valve clearance first and take a gander at idler wheels and chain to see what condition they are in, before tearing into the chain adjuster. Just my opinion but I would start at the top and work down.

Rick H.
Rick H.

1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000A1
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 11:30 #819305

  • martin_csr
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His 1000P should have a Hy-Vo cam chain w rubber slipper guides, instead of idler wheels.

With the valve cover in place, instead of completely servicing the tensioner, you could simply remove the cap, cross-wedge & cross-wedge spring, clean/lubricate the cross-wedge & spring, then reinstall. I think this will kind of reset the tensioner. You could measure the cross-wedge spring at this time. There's also a pushrod spring, but the tensioner has to be removed to check it.

If you plan on removing the valve cover, leave the tensioner & cross-wedge in place. After removing the valve cover & turning the crankshaft and you're ready to put the valve cover back on, before reinstalling the valve cover, remove the cap & cross-wedge, then install the valve cover & torque the bolts. then re-install the cross-wedge, spring & cap.
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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 11:33 #819306

  • Rick H.
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Sorry, my mistake. Too new for me. I assume those could be worn too correct?

Rick H.
Rick H.

1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000A1
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 11:56 #819311

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Yes, he should inspect the upper guide to see if it's chewed up or damaged.
If the upper guide is bad, then the other two might be damaged as well.
Most of them I've seen have slight impressions in them from the cam chain, from normal use.
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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 13:48 #819321

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Thanks-- I appreciate it. This '88 is new to me too. The bike I ride is a 1978 KZ1000, so I'm new to this animal.

Two questions, please:

-- 1.) can I do that deal, removing and cleaning the cap and wedge, with the tensioner still installed on the engine, or does it have to come off?

-- 2.) what is the relationship between the valve cover and the tensioner? I believe the words "with the valve cover in place" have come up a few times in this thread. Are the chain guides attached to the valve cover?

Thanks again.

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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 14 Feb 2020 14:16 #819325

  • Rick H.
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I would love to answer your questions, but obviously that '88 model engine is different from my '77. Probably would be a great idea to get a factory service manual for your bike as you will find many answers to your questions in the book. Looking at Partzilla the cam chain and tensioners are quite different than earlier models
Rick H.
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1977 Kawasaki KZ-1000A1
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 00:58 #819355

  • kevski
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You have to remove tensioner to service it, leave valve cover on, if removing valve cover lock off tensioner so it does not tighten up as this will stretch your chain or worse, ideally you need a workshop manual that covers this engine and read the procedures very carefully several times, valve lash will need to be checked along with carb synchronization as all of these can cause a noisy top end
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 06:52 #819363

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By Flatblackobsession: .... Two questions, please:
-- 1.) can I do that deal, removing and cleaning the cap and wedge, with the tensioner still installed on the engine, or does it have to come off?
-- 2.) what is the relationship between the valve cover and the tensioner? I believe the words "with the valve cover in place" have come up a few times in this thread. Are the chain guides attached to the valve cover?


You can remove the cross-wedge with the tensioner in place, but reinstall before removing the valve cover. If the the cross-wedge & its spring are gunked up or something, then you should remove the tensioner to clean/check the pushrod & pushrod spring. I would go ahead & remove the tensioner for servicing and check that both springs are within spec.

Yes, the upper guide is attached to the valve cover. When the valve cover is removed, you'll see that there's a dip or slack in the cam chain as it conforms to the shape of the upper guide. Then when you turn the crankshaft, the slack is taken up & transferred elsewhere, so the pushrod may move forward to take up the excess slack. The pushrod can only move forward >> the cross-wedge prevents it from moving backwards.
So when you try to put the valve cover back on without removing the cross-wedge, tightening the valve cover bolts may cause
the cam chain to get stretched (if the pushrod moved forward which it should do).

1981 KZ650-CSR. Just to show the dip or slack in the cam chain. I think I took this pic before turning the crankshaft. not sure.
not exactly the same as the 1000P, but basically the same in concept.


After turning the crankshaft. slack is taken up & the pushrod can then move forward. If you try to install the valve cover without removing the cross-wedge, tightening the valve cover could stretch the cam chain if the pushrod moved forward.
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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 07:02 #819364

  • SWest
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Chances are it would break one or more of the guides if not already done by the PO.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 07:06 #819365

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What would break one of the guides?
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 07:09 #819366

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Overtightening the chain. I doubt the chain would stretch before the plastic guides fail.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
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kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 07:19 #819367

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Either way, its' not a good thing. :laugh:

Pushrod roller. Since it hasn't been discussed. There should be a pushrod roller or stop that prevents the pushrod from falling down into the engine. The roller fits thru a hole in the tensioner body & protrudes into the pushrod groove. So when you remove the tensioner, make sure the roller is in place. see Camshaft/Tensioner diagram at Partzilla for the 88 1000P.
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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? 15 Feb 2020 08:01 #819370

  • Kidkawie
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My top end tapping noise was a loose header.
1975 Z1 900
1994 KX250 Showroom Resto
2004 KX125
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Cop bike top end sound, tensioner? Today 09:50 #819578

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I really appreciate all the thoughts and information. Martin and Swest-- good thoughts.

This gives me some ideas as to what might be up. I'm betting the previous owner did not know about this valve cover/tensioner relationship. I can tell they went in there to try to fix a valve cover oil leak, and I'll bet they tightened down the valve cover without tending to the tensioner. So, it might be a stretched chain, or hopefully just a compromised/broken guide.

We'll see......

Thanks again.
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