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TOPIC: Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out

Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 05 Aug 2019 08:25 #808747

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newkzrider18 wrote:
took all the jets, holders, pipes, what have you, out and shot carb cleaner through them, then air compressed all around, and repeated that twice; so everything got it three times. Then I checked to make sure I could see through them, so I can clean it again I just don't know if that would even do anything.


Did you cleaned these holes in the main jet holder pipes and pilot jets too?



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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 05 Aug 2019 09:22 #808752

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Do the thumb test on the slides.
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 05 Aug 2019 17:46 #808780

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Thumb test checked out; they're good!

I did make sure to clean those, but I have no shame cleaning the entire carb for the 4th time. Might as well, I'll be excruciatingly thorough...
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 06 Aug 2019 05:49 #808787

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I once had a problem with a sticky float. It would close and then stay closed. The gasket would hold it up in place. But it was only one float out of four.

If you have another set of carbs you might try switching them to see if the problem persists.
I have a couple of Z1B's restored, an '80 KZ1000LTD restored, a 1981 KZ550 restored and a 2008 KLR 650 for off road fun. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 06 Aug 2019 09:09 #808796

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Hi,
Maybe a little far-fetched but have you tested so that the battery is fully charged and in god condition?
It could be a charging problem resulting in a weak spark.

Regards
Anders

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 19 Aug 2019 17:53 #809504

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OK overdue and long update.
Cleaned carbs AGAIN looking to make sure I could see through all the jets and those holes in the various pipes, sprayed through the carb body passageways as well.
Same problem. Hesitates with throttle.
No sticky floats.

So I ended up doing a compression test and it looks good. On the high side, (dry 170 left & right, wet 205 left & right), although the manual said "109-150 psi OR within 14 psi of eachother"....they are definitely within 14 psi of eachother, but not within the former range, so idk what the 'or' is about, but I'll probably clean the piston heads for good measure.

Anyway...I'm fairly certain now it is a carb adjustment problem.
I actually had it running and no blipping or hesitation, I could use the throttle however ONLY when the choke was fully used. If I tried to lower it at all, the bike hesitated and died like before.
Since all the fuel tests I did before checked out, I think there is some adjustment issue....

Would someone walk me through how to adjust the carbs?
I know the manual tells you to back out the pilot screw 2.75 turns then to change the idle adjuster until it is at appropriate range, but maybe because there are aftermarket exhaust on the bike the pilot srew amount of turns could be different?
And the shimming on the needle, it was at 3 before, and I changed it to 2, maybe I should go back.

Because I could at least get it to not hesitate when there was enough fuel, so it's pretty clear it is a fuel issue:
1) carbs clean (every single part)
2) floats not sticky
3) vacuum on petcock works
4) floats getting fuel = carb getting fuel
5) sliders are in working condition (air compression tested and thumb test)

Has to be an adjustment problem???
That's still so weird though, why would a long drive mess that up!?!?

Thanks if anyone reads this after so long!
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 19 Aug 2019 18:12 #809507

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Did you check the fuel level using the clear tube method described in the factory manual?

The fact that it runs better with the choke on is an indication of a very lean condition.
Fuel level is much too low.
Pilot circuit clogged.
Air leak.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 19 Aug 2019 18:59 #809512

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correct, it all points to a lean condition.
Yes I did the clear tube method and it is within specs.

It's just, there are already 3 washers on the thing. That already seems like a lot. I am weary to add more to fix the lean condition.
Don't think it would be the pilot circuit as stated the carbs have been thoroughly cleaned not once, but multiple times.
Maybe the air leak. Though I did change the carb boots recently and they have no cracks.
Any other places to look for an air leak?
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 19 Aug 2019 20:28 #809520

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Your carbs are still clogged / dirty. I know you said you cleaned them but if it only runs on choke the pilot circuit is clogged or you've got a massive vacuum leak which is unlikely. I've had to take apart and clean some carbs numerous times in the ultrasonic cleaner before they were actually clean.

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 19 Aug 2019 20:46 #809521

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newkzrider18 wrote: (bought bike used, also has aftermarket exhaust on it so maybe this was an adjustment?)
I don't have the pods, I made the custom air filter that's on this site.


I suspect this is at least part of the problem. The jetting needs are changed based on the different airbox and exhaust.

I'd put the needle back to stock and then slowly block off intake flow using tape over the filter element a little at a time to see if that helps clear up the running problems. Assuming that helps you will then know where to focus your efforts (jetting.)

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 02:59 #809524

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Hello,

Have you checked the timing advancer unit so
its moves easily.

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 06:40 #809534

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Timing advancer is good.
I'll try the tape method after cleaning the pilot circuit. Unfortunately when I bought the bike I took it to a used parts store to see if they had the original air box (obviously they didn't since I made one) and we checked to see if they made a jetting kit for my bike but they don't :[

As for carb cleaning here's what I know:
I can see through ALL of the following (any holes on them included)
1) Pilot Jet
2) Primary Main Jet
3) Bleeder Pipe
4) Secondary Main Jet
5) Needle Jet Holder

Since I can see through all their various respective parts, I think it is safe to assume those parts are clean.
that being said, is there a passageway I can run wire through to see if it is clogged, or squirt something and it should come out somewhere?
Manual wouldn't/doesn't give any information on passageways.

Thanks for all the help everyone
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 06:52 #809536

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Taping off the intakes seems like an easy way to confirm a fuel mixture problem. I also suspect (please pardon me if I already said this) that placing three washers under the needles was a lazy way to compensate for pilot and main jets that are way too small.
Seems like Patton has recently posted a diagram of the various passages in the carbs. You might find it by looking at his recent posts.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 07:04 #809539

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I actually think I remember seeing a post of his, so I know what you're referring to.
Yeah I don't like the washers method either, however (since there is no kit) I'm not experienced enough to know exactly what size jets I need.
I would rather re-jet, but don't want to do it wrong and mess up the performance even more. Advice on that?
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 07:04 #809540

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And definitely don't feel comfortable drilling the jets like some suggest!
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 07:10 #809541

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Pic of the plugs?
Steve
Z1b1000 1975 Z1b
Opinions expressed by me do not reflect those of the the staff or members
kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/598262-kz-...-will-it-live#672882
kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/597654-poser?start=240#704229

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 07:32 #809542

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Spark plugs are black showing carbon, but most likely due to me keeping the choke fully on whenever trying to test after cleaning. Can be easily rubbed off with my finger, so most likely only happened when testing and not the actual condition when normally operating.
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 08:50 #809547

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The carb bodies have small passageways that can get clogged. So even with new jets you still have a problem. Make sure you can spray cleaner thru all the passageways. Most people remove the bowls and all the jets then clean the jets and hose the bowl and carb body down with cleaner then put it back together and call it clean. Thats not going to clean them. It takes me about 3-5 hours to clean a rack of carbs. I take them completely apart I ungang the carb bodies and then I work on 1 body at a time.
I'll say this one more time, if it only runs on choke the idle circuit is CLOGGED!

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 20 Aug 2019 12:00 #809558

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I am not an expert here but when I thought I had cleaned my carbs out i was told if I didn't run a wire or piece of nylon through the small passages I hadn't really cleaned it. I ran a nylon broom bristle through my idle passages and it fixed my problem.
As Always,

1983 KZ440

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Long drive killed engine? Carbs check out 24 Aug 2019 14:19 #809774

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Alright everyone, I boiled the carbs in lemon juice to start out...they look a lot better...
Then I took the only long piece of wire like material I had which were my guitar strings.
I poked them through trying to follow the passageways on pages 151 and 152 of the manual, however, I couldn't get all the through just because I cant get the wire to bend in such a way around the curves.
Also there are a lot of other holes the manual doesn't show where the go...but I just poked in there just in case.
Everytime I took the wire out of a passageway I checked the tip to see if it was dirty; it never was.

So I was focusing on the pilot/idle circuit and although I couldn't get the wire all the way through, I ran water from the pilot jet opening and looked at the three small "dot" opening where the throttle butterfly valve is and say water coming out

You guys think the water making it from the opening to the 3 dots is safe to say there is nothing in the way?
1980 KZ 440 LTD Model A

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