Starter and crank bolt problems

Jumping back into this thread because I have a new problem. After sitting for most of the week I finally got the carbs adjusted and back on the bike, but when I hit the starter switch I got this grinding sound like gears. It will catch occasionally and I've managed to start the bike up a few more times over the weekend, but finally dug into it today to see if I could figure out the problem...

I ran across some other threads suggesting a similar sound would be heard if the starter clutch was not grabbing. Considering the previous problems, I thought this was a good place to start. When I popped the alternator back off again, I found what I thought was a loose bolt on the back of the clutch. Turns out it was actually a broken bolt. "Ah-HA!" I thought, surely this was my problem! Since the other unit I have has slightly shorter bolts, I swapped all three to maintain the balance, and used a piece of wood to smack the hex wrench and make sure the bolts were all snug. Confirmed there was no damage where the clutch grabs, then reassembled everything and tried again. UGH! Still making the same noises! I just don't see how it was working perfectly last weekend, then after sitting for a few days it suddenly is broken?

So then only other thing I can think of is the starter motor. Perhaps someone can tell me -- is the gear on the starter directly connected to the motor shaft, or is there internal gearing in the starter? If there is internal gearing, is it possible to take apart the starter? I have three starter motors sitting here, however only one of them actually works when power is applied. Another has a dead short in it, and the last is completely dead... BUT there is a good chance that I might be able to swap around internal components if something is broken in my working motor.

And in the off chance that there are NOT any internal gears in the starter motor... what else could it be? I had the timing cover off today and could see that the main crank was only hesitantly turning over, and there is no sign of grinding on the visible starter gears. Considering all the frustration with the engine idle speeds, it would be nice if I could at least get this part fixed.

I found some pics of a starter tear-down showing that the gear is actually ground into the motor shaft, so definitely no internal gearing like I was hoping.

I guess that means I'm back to the clutch again. Should I maybe hit the clutch ring surface (on the one-way gear) with some #600 emery cloth? I suppose there could be glazing similar to a disc brake that needs broken up and that surface does have a shiny polished finish to it. All three of the small steel cylinders are moving freely against their springs, and spinning the gear by hand caused them to lock and turn the engine.

1. is it possible to take apart the starter? Yes you can.
2. is the gear on the starter directly connected to the motor shaft? Yes it is one piece shaft with no internal gearing.

It could be the bearings in the starter are damaged or the starter clutch did not disengage and and rev´s
the starter motor out of his limit. .
Have you check the starter clutch internal rollers and springs of any kind of wear?
Have you test that the starter gear turns freely counter clockwise?





Michael

By the way, is the starter solenoid supposed to have some sort of built-in delay time to it? I've noticed when I touch the starter switch that the motor will continue to crank for a seemingly random period (up to a couple seconds) after I release the switch. Releasing the clutch and even turning off the key has no affect on this. At first I was thinking this was something meant to smooth out dirty contacts on the starter switch, but then it occurred to me that this was from 1981 and unlikely to contain anything like that.

No delay. It should should stop right away.

The damper may be too thick.
Steve

That's what I was thinking, the solenoid must be sticking then. Erg.

@SWest -- This isn't the sound of the engine dragging the starter with it like I originally had. This happens when the engine isn't actually starting and I let go of the starter button. Since the button is dependent on both ignition power and the clutch kill switch (and it keeps trying to start even after I release the clutch and turn off the key), the solenoid is really the only thing that could continue applying power to the starter motor I believe.

As for the damper, it's still working as expected... once I torque the crank bolt I get a light drag in one direction and it locks in the other direction (at least by hand).

If you can't find a stock one you can get one for a garden tractor.
Steve

I actually have one more, it's the right type but has different wires on it. Will need to break out the soldering iron to swap those smaller ones. Right now I'm more worried about trying to get it cranking over the engine reliably so I can get back to that idle problem again.

1. It could be a weak or broken spring.
2. The iron piston could not move freely back cause by dirt or rust.

For a quick and dirty test start.
Not the finest way to start but in case of an emergency.