Z1/KZ900/KZ1000/ZX1100A camshaft timing procedure

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13 Mar 2017 14:07 #756651 by joehooper
Pit Stop Performance
Camshaft Degree procedure.
Last updated 9-1-2016

This procedure will begin with a few bold assumptions. It will assume that the camshafts have been installed using the accepted Kawasaki procedure or Pit Stop Performance procedure for camshaft timing. It is also assumed that the camshaft sprockets which are installed are slotted at the bolt holes to allow camshaft advance and retard movement in relation to the crankshaft. This procedure assumes that the motor has stock camshafts installed. If the camshafts are not stock, the procedure for timing is the same. The procedure for locating top dead center may change, to avoid having valves come into contact with the top dead center finder, leading to valve damage. Finally, it is assumed that the cam chain is sufficiently new that it is actually possible to place the camshafts in the desired position.
A few special tools are required for this procedure:
Top dead center finder
Dial gauge with magnetic base
Degree wheel
Pointer
The dial gauge with magnetic base, the top dead center finder and the degree wheel are all available from Pit Stop Performance either individually or in a complete kit.
The pointer can be fabricated out of a length of wire coat hanger. Bend as required with a pair of pliers or two so that the pointer can be secured to a dyno cover case hole with a 6mm screw along with a large diameter washer and the free end can point to the edge of the degree wheel when it is mounted on the end of the crankshaft. The pointer end may be sharpened on a bench grinder.
The top dead center finder can also be fabricated if you do not wish to purchase one. Bust up an old spark plug to make it. The porcelain can be removed by placing it in a vice and tightening until the porcelain breaks (be sure to wear safety glasses). The remainder of the insides can be removed with a drift pin and a hammer. Cut off the negative electrode with a pair of diagonal cutters. Next, drill with a 5/16” drill and tap the inside of the plug with a 3/8” X 16 TPI tap. Obtain a 3/8” X 16 TPI bolt, 3 ½” long and insert from the top. You now have a top dead center finder that can be added to your tool box.
One rule that should always be followed when timing camshafts is that the motor should only be rotated in the same direction as it operates. This rule should be followed unless the procedure absolutely requires you to rotate the motor in the opposite direction. So, for our purposes, we are only going to rotate the motor from the ignition side using a 17mm wrench. We are only going to rotate it in the clockwise direction (from the ignition side) unless instructed to do otherwise in this procedure.


First, mount the degree wheel on the dyno side of the motor. Rotate the crankshaft from the ignition side to the 1-4 T mark on the ignition advancer. Rotate the degree wheel as required and set your pointer on TDC. Note that this is a roughing in procedure. A more accurate TDC will be determined shortly. Rotate the crankshaft counter clockwise from the ignition side until the degree wheel is approximately 20 degrees Before TDC (BTDC). This is a good time to familiarize yourself with the difference between before top dead center (BTDC) and after top dead center (ATDC). If you are looking at the degree wheel on the dyno or left side of the motor, the rotation of the motor while running is counter clockwise. So, if the pointer is at 20 and you would have to rotate the motor counter clockwise from the dyno side to reach TDC, then the motor is at 20 degrees before TDC, or 20 degrees BTDC.

Top Dead Center location procedure

Next, install your newly built top dead center finder in the number four cylinder. Remove the bolt before installation. Install the bolt and rotate by hand until it contacts the top of the piston.
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise from the ignition side and hold the piston against the bolt of the top dead center finder. Have someone else read the degree wheel for you while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder. It should be reading something close to 20 BTDC, maybe a little less. Right this number down. Now, rotate the motor counter clockwise from the ignition side until the piston again stops against the top dead center finder bolt. Have your friend read the degree wheel again while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder. It should be reading some number close to 20 ATDC. Write this number down.
Add the two numbers together and divide by two. The result is where you want to relocate your pointer. Move the pointer only while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder.
Repeat the Top Dead Center location procedure. The crankshaft should stop at the same number before and after TDC. Once complete, back the motor off so that the piston is not in contact with the top dead center finder bolt, and remove the bolt and the top dead center finder from the spark plug hole.


You are now ready to determine the timing of your camshafts. The method to be used is the Pit Stop Performance center line method. We will be calculating the center line of one lobe of each camshaft. The center line is the middle of the highest point on the lobe, but it can not be measured directly. We will calculate the position of the center line by picking a point on the opening ramp and the same point on the closing ramp. We will then calculate the point in between (center line).
The camshaft timing preferred by Pit Stop Performance is known as “split overlap”. The overlap is the period of time when both the intake and the exhaust valves are open. By splitting the overlap, we will be dividing the overlap so that half of it occurs before TDC and half of it occurs after TDC. When you split the overlap, it means that the center line of each camshaft will be the same number. The exhaust center line will be BTDC and the intake center line will be ATDC. Stock camshafts set to factory Kawasaki specifications have centerlines of 110 degrees.
Take a look at the Stock Camshaft Profiles graph below. Note that there are three points on the graph that are marked TDC. The one furthest to the left and the one furthest to the right are actually the same point. The graph keeps repeating as the motor runs. From one TDC to the next represents one complete revolution of the motor. It takes two complete revolutions of the motor to make one complete cycle. Note the portion of the graph identified as overlap. This is where both valves are open at the same time. The horizontal lines on the graph represent valve lift in inches. The vertical lines on the graph represent important points as the motor rotates. The bell shaped curves represent the intake and exhaust valve openings in relation to crankshaft position. In this graph both camshafts are shown at the factory settings of 110 degrees center line. The graph comes to a point at the top, it shouldn’t. I could not make the graph look right when I pasted it in from Excel.





Exhaust

We are going to start with the exhaust camshaft. Rotate the motor until the number four exhaust camshaft lobe is pushing the cam follower all the way down. Mount the dial gauge so that the gauge can measure the cam follower movement. Turn the motor two full turns to verify free movement of the gauge through a full cycle. Rotate the motor to the point of no lift on the cam follower.
Set the dial gauge at 0, rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction slowly until the dial gauge registers a lift of .030”. Record the degree wheel reading. This point on the camshaft represents .030” of lift on the opening ramp. The number you record should be less than 60 Before Bottom Dead Center (BBDC). The dial gauge should have a second needle on it which counts the number of times the primary needle has gone around the dial. Note this number. Continue to rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction past maximum lift until you are again at .030” of lift on the closing side of the ramp. This is where the second needle on the dial gauge comes into play. Both needles should be in the exact same position as your first reading. Record the degree wheel reading. This number should be a smaller number than the first one recorded and it should be After Top Dead Center (ATDC).
We are now ready to calculate the center line of the exhaust camshaft. Subtract the second number recorded from the first number recorded. Divide the result by two, then add this number to 90. That is your center line. This number represents the middle of the exhaust camshaft lobe, Before Top Dead Center (BTDC).


Let us work the numbers on an example:
This example only applies to the exhaust camshaft.
Supposing the first number recorded at .030” on the opening ramp was 45 BBDC and the second number recorded at .030” on the closing ramp was 5 ATDC.
Subtract the second number from the first number:
45
-5
= 40
divide by 2:
= 20
add 90:
+90
= 110
So, your centerline is 110 degrees BTDC. This brings us to another interesting point. 110 BTDC is the same as 70 ABDC. But we want to reference camshaft timing to top dead center not bottom dead center. So, for this reason the number is required to be greater than 90. The Pit Stop Performance recommended camshaft timing with stock camshafts in use for a motor which is used primarily on the street is 105 degrees. So, to adjust your camshaft timing, you need to retard the exhaust camshaft. There are three bolts securing the camshaft to the sprocket. You can only access at the most, two of these bolts at a time. So, you must loosen two bolts and then rotate the crankshaft to access the third bolt. Once the third bolt has been loosened, the crankshaft may be rotated, while the camshaft remain motionless, until the bolts reach the end of the slots. This is what will allow us to adjust the camshaft timing. If we continue to rotate the motor in the clockwise direction with the camshaft stationary, the camshaft will be retarded in relation to the crankshaft. For our example, that is exactly what we need. Look closely at the camshaft bolt and it’s slot, rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the sprocket moves about 1/16” in relation to the camshaft. Tighten the bolt, snug. Rotate the motor and tighten the other two bolts. (When the final camshaft adjustment is complete, check the torque of all three bolts on the camshaft one final time.)
Reperform the camshaft timing procedure. Continue to adjust and recheck the camshaft timing until the desired center line is achieved. In our example, that centerline would be 105. Most mild performance camshafts work well at 110 degrees. When running very high lift and long duration camshafts for racing applications, the center lines may go as high as 116 degrees. A good rule of thumb is that a lower center line will yield more torque and lower end throttle response and a higher center line will yield more maximum power output at higher RPM.


Intake

Next we are going to time the intake camshaft. Rotate the motor until the number four intake camshaft lobe is pushing the cam follower all the way down. Mount the dial gauge so that the gauge can measure the cam follower movement. Turn the motor two full turns to verify free movement of the gauge through a full cycle. Rotate the motor to the point of no lift on the cam follower.
Set the dial gauge at 0, rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction slowly until the dial gauge registers a lift of .030”. Record the degree wheel reading. This point on the camshaft represents .030” of lift on the opening ramp. The number you record should be less than 30 Before Top Dead Center (BTDC). The dial gauge should have a second needle on it which counts the number of times the primary needle has gone around the dial. Note this number. Continue to rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction past maximum lift until you are again at .030” of lift on the closing side of the ramp. This is where the second needle on the dial gauge comes into play. Both needles should be in the exact same position as your first reading. Record the degree wheel reading. This number should be a larger number than the first one recorded and it should be After Bottom Dead Center (ABDC).
We are now ready to calculate the center line of the intake camshaft. Subtract the first number recorded from the second number recorded. Divide the result by two, then add this number to 90. That is your center line. This number represents the middle of the intake camshaft lobe, After Top Dead Center (BTDC).


Let us work the numbers on an example:
This example only applies to the intake camshaft.
Supposing the first number recorded at .040” on the opening ramp was 5 BTDC and the second number recorded at .030” on the closing ramp was 45 ABDC.
Subtract the first number from the second number:
45
-5
= 40
divide by 2:
= 20
add 90:
+90
= 110
So, your centerline is 110 degrees ATDC.
The Pit Stop Performance recommended camshaft timing with stock camshafts in use for a motor which is used primarily on the street is 105 degrees. So, to adjust your camshaft timing, you need to advance the intake camshaft. There are three bolts securing the camshaft to the sprocket. You can only access at the most, two of these bolts at a time. So, you must loosen two bolts and then rotate the crankshaft to access the third bolt. Once the third bolt has been loosened, the crankshaft may be rotated, while the camshaft remain motionless, until the bolts reach the end of the slots. This is what will allow us to adjust the camshaft timing. If we rotate the motor in the counter clockwise direction with the camshaft stationary, the camshaft will be advanced in relation to the crankshaft. For our example, that is exactly what we need. Look closely at the camshaft bolt and it’s slot, rotate the crankshaft counter clockwise until the sprocket moves about 1/16” in relation to the camshaft. Tighten the bolt, snug. Rotate the motor and tighten the other two bolts. (When the final camshaft adjustment is complete, check the torque of all three bolts on the camshaft one final time.)
Reperform the camshaft timing procedure. Continue to adjust and recheck the camshaft timing until the desired center line is achieved. In our example, that centerline would be 105. Most mild performance camshafts work well at 110 degrees. When running very high lift and long duration camshafts for racing applications, the center lines may go as high as 116 degrees. A good rule of thumb is that a lower center line will yield more torque and lower end throttle response and a higher center line will yield more maximum power output a higher RPM.
Once both camshafts are correctly timed and all six bolts are tight, the last step is to remove the camshaft bolts one at a time and apply a drop of Loctite thread locker. Reinstall the bolts and tighten to 120 inch pounds.
*******Do not forget this last step.*******
The torque of the camshafts bolts (three per camshaft) should be checked by a second person, completely independent of the person who originally performed the torqueing.
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13 Mar 2017 15:03 #756654 by SWest

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13 Mar 2017 15:21 #756657 by Street Fighter LTD
Replied by Street Fighter LTD on topic Z1/KZ900/KZ1000/ZX1100A camshaft timing procedure

joehooper wrote: Pit Stop Performance
Camshaft Degree procedure.
Last updated 9-1-2016

This procedure will begin with a few bold assumptions. It will assume that the camshafts have been installed using the accepted Kawasaki procedure or Pit Stop Performance procedure for camshaft timing. It is also assumed that the camshaft sprockets which are installed are slotted at the bolt holes to allow camshaft advance and retard movement in relation to the crankshaft. This procedure assumes that the motor has stock camshafts installed. If the camshafts are not stock, the procedure for timing is the same. The procedure for locating top dead center may change, to avoid having valves come into contact with the top dead center finder, leading to valve damage. Finally, it is assumed that the cam chain is sufficiently new that it is actually possible to place the camshafts in the desired position.
A few special tools are required for this procedure:
Top dead center finder
Dial gauge with magnetic base
Degree wheel
Pointer
The dial gauge with magnetic base, the top dead center finder and the degree wheel are all available from Pit Stop Performance either individually or in a complete kit.
The pointer can be fabricated out of a length of wire coat hanger. Bend as required with a pair of pliers or two so that the pointer can be secured to a dyno cover case hole with a 6mm screw along with a large diameter washer and the free end can point to the edge of the degree wheel when it is mounted on the end of the crankshaft. The pointer end may be sharpened on a bench grinder.
The top dead center finder can also be fabricated if you do not wish to purchase one. Bust up an old spark plug to make it. The porcelain can be removed by placing it in a vice and tightening until the porcelain breaks (be sure to wear safety glasses). The remainder of the insides can be removed with a drift pin and a hammer. Cut off the negative electrode with a pair of diagonal cutters. Next, drill with a 5/16” drill and tap the inside of the plug with a 3/8” X 16 TPI tap. Obtain a 3/8” X 16 TPI bolt, 3 ½” long and insert from the top. You now have a top dead center finder that can be added to your tool box.
One rule that should always be followed when timing camshafts is that the motor should only be rotated in the same direction as it operates. This rule should be followed unless the procedure absolutely requires you to rotate the motor in the opposite direction. So, for our purposes, we are only going to rotate the motor from the ignition side using a 17mm wrench. We are only going to rotate it in the clockwise direction (from the ignition side) unless instructed to do otherwise in this procedure.


First, mount the degree wheel on the dyno side of the motor. Rotate the crankshaft from the ignition side to the 1-4 T mark on the ignition advancer. Rotate the degree wheel as required and set your pointer on TDC. Note that this is a roughing in procedure. A more accurate TDC will be determined shortly. Rotate the crankshaft counter clockwise from the ignition side until the degree wheel is approximately 20 degrees Before TDC (BTDC). This is a good time to familiarize yourself with the difference between before top dead center (BTDC) and after top dead center (ATDC). If you are looking at the degree wheel on the dyno or left side of the motor, the rotation of the motor while running is counter clockwise. So, if the pointer is at 20 and you would have to rotate the motor counter clockwise from the dyno side to reach TDC, then the motor is at 20 degrees before TDC, or 20 degrees BTDC.

Top Dead Center location procedure

Next, install your newly built top dead center finder in the number four cylinder. Remove the bolt before installation. Install the bolt and rotate by hand until it contacts the top of the piston.
Rotate the crankshaft clockwise from the ignition side and hold the piston against the bolt of the top dead center finder. Have someone else read the degree wheel for you while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder. It should be reading something close to 20 BTDC, maybe a little less. Right this number down. Now, rotate the motor counter clockwise from the ignition side until the piston again stops against the top dead center finder bolt. Have your friend read the degree wheel again while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder. It should be reading some number close to 20 ATDC. Write this number down.
Add the two numbers together and divide by two. The result is where you want to relocate your pointer. Move the pointer only while you are maintaining tension against the bolt of the top dead center finder.
Repeat the Top Dead Center location procedure. The crankshaft should stop at the same number before and after TDC. Once complete, back the motor off so that the piston is not in contact with the top dead center finder bolt, and remove the bolt and the top dead center finder from the spark plug hole.


You are now ready to determine the timing of your camshafts. The method to be used is the Pit Stop Performance center line method. We will be calculating the center line of one lobe of each camshaft. The center line is the middle of the highest point on the lobe, but it can not be measured directly. We will calculate the position of the center line by picking a point on the opening ramp and the same point on the closing ramp. We will then calculate the point in between (center line).
The camshaft timing preferred by Pit Stop Performance is known as “split overlap”. The overlap is the period of time when both the intake and the exhaust valves are open. By splitting the overlap, we will be dividing the overlap so that half of it occurs before TDC and half of it occurs after TDC. When you split the overlap, it means that the center line of each camshaft will be the same number. The exhaust center line will be BTDC and the intake center line will be ATDC. Stock camshafts set to factory Kawasaki specifications have centerlines of 110 degrees.
Take a look at the Stock Camshaft Profiles graph below. Note that there are three points on the graph that are marked TDC. The one furthest to the left and the one furthest to the right are actually the same point. The graph keeps repeating as the motor runs. From one TDC to the next represents one complete revolution of the motor. It takes two complete revolutions of the motor to make one complete cycle. Note the portion of the graph identified as overlap. This is where both valves are open at the same time. The horizontal lines on the graph represent valve lift in inches. The vertical lines on the graph represent important points as the motor rotates. The bell shaped curves represent the intake and exhaust valve openings in relation to crankshaft position. In this graph both camshafts are shown at the factory settings of 110 degrees center line. The graph comes to a point at the top, it shouldn’t. I could not make the graph look right when I pasted it in from Excel.





Exhaust

We are going to start with the exhaust camshaft. Rotate the motor until the number four exhaust camshaft lobe is pushing the cam follower all the way down. Mount the dial gauge so that the gauge can measure the cam follower movement. Turn the motor two full turns to verify free movement of the gauge through a full cycle. Rotate the motor to the point of no lift on the cam follower.
Set the dial gauge at 0, rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction slowly until the dial gauge registers a lift of .030”. Record the degree wheel reading. This point on the camshaft represents .030” of lift on the opening ramp. The number you record should be less than 60 Before Bottom Dead Center (BBDC). The dial gauge should have a second needle on it which counts the number of times the primary needle has gone around the dial. Note this number. Continue to rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction past maximum lift until you are again at .030” of lift on the closing side of the ramp. This is where the second needle on the dial gauge comes into play. Both needles should be in the exact same position as your first reading. Record the degree wheel reading. This number should be a smaller number than the first one recorded and it should be After Top Dead Center (ATDC).
We are now ready to calculate the center line of the exhaust camshaft. Subtract the second number recorded from the first number recorded. Divide the result by two, then add this number to 90. That is your center line. This number represents the middle of the exhaust camshaft lobe, Before Top Dead Center (BTDC).


Let us work the numbers on an example:
This example only applies to the exhaust camshaft.
Supposing the first number recorded at .030” on the opening ramp was 45 BBDC and the second number recorded at .030” on the closing ramp was 5 ATDC.
Subtract the second number from the first number:
45
-5
= 40
divide by 2:
= 20
add 90:
+90
= 110
So, your centerline is 110 degrees BTDC. This brings us to another interesting point. 110 BTDC is the same as 70 ABDC. But we want to reference camshaft timing to top dead center not bottom dead center. So, for this reason the number is required to be greater than 90. The Pit Stop Performance recommended camshaft timing with stock camshafts in use for a motor which is used primarily on the street is 105 degrees. So, to adjust your camshaft timing, you need to retard the exhaust camshaft. There are three bolts securing the camshaft to the sprocket. You can only access at the most, two of these bolts at a time. So, you must loosen two bolts and then rotate the crankshaft to access the third bolt. Once the third bolt has been loosened, the crankshaft may be rotated, while the camshaft remain motionless, until the bolts reach the end of the slots. This is what will allow us to adjust the camshaft timing. If we continue to rotate the motor in the clockwise direction with the camshaft stationary, the camshaft will be retarded in relation to the crankshaft. For our example, that is exactly what we need. Look closely at the camshaft bolt and it’s slot, rotate the crankshaft clockwise until the sprocket moves about 1/16” in relation to the camshaft. Tighten the bolt, snug. Rotate the motor and tighten the other two bolts. (When the final camshaft adjustment is complete, check the torque of all three bolts on the camshaft one final time.)
Reperform the camshaft timing procedure. Continue to adjust and recheck the camshaft timing until the desired center line is achieved. In our example, that centerline would be 105. Most mild performance camshafts work well at 110 degrees. When running very high lift and long duration camshafts for racing applications, the center lines may go as high as 116 degrees. A good rule of thumb is that a lower center line will yield more torque and lower end throttle response and a higher center line will yield more maximum power output at higher RPM.


Intake

Next we are going to time the intake camshaft. Rotate the motor until the number four intake camshaft lobe is pushing the cam follower all the way down. Mount the dial gauge so that the gauge can measure the cam follower movement. Turn the motor two full turns to verify free movement of the gauge through a full cycle. Rotate the motor to the point of no lift on the cam follower.
Set the dial gauge at 0, rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction slowly until the dial gauge registers a lift of .030”. Record the degree wheel reading. This point on the camshaft represents .030” of lift on the opening ramp. The number you record should be less than 30 Before Top Dead Center (BTDC). The dial gauge should have a second needle on it which counts the number of times the primary needle has gone around the dial. Note this number. Continue to rotate the motor from the ignition side in the clockwise direction past maximum lift until you are again at .030” of lift on the closing side of the ramp. This is where the second needle on the dial gauge comes into play. Both needles should be in the exact same position as your first reading. Record the degree wheel reading. This number should be a larger number than the first one recorded and it should be After Bottom Dead Center (ABDC).
We are now ready to calculate the center line of the intake camshaft. Subtract the first number recorded from the second number recorded. Divide the result by two, then add this number to 90. That is your center line. This number represents the middle of the intake camshaft lobe, After Top Dead Center (BTDC).


Let us work the numbers on an example:
This example only applies to the intake camshaft.
Supposing the first number recorded at .040” on the opening ramp was 5 BTDC and the second number recorded at .030” on the closing ramp was 45 ABDC.
Subtract the first number from the second number:
45
-5
= 40
divide by 2:
= 20
add 90:
+90
= 110
So, your centerline is 110 degrees ATDC.
The Pit Stop Performance recommended camshaft timing with stock camshafts in use for a motor which is used primarily on the street is 105 degrees. So, to adjust your camshaft timing, you need to advance the intake camshaft. There are three bolts securing the camshaft to the sprocket. You can only access at the most, two of these bolts at a time. So, you must loosen two bolts and then rotate the crankshaft to access the third bolt. Once the third bolt has been loosened, the crankshaft may be rotated, while the camshaft remain motionless, until the bolts reach the end of the slots. This is what will allow us to adjust the camshaft timing. If we rotate the motor in the counter clockwise direction with the camshaft stationary, the camshaft will be advanced in relation to the crankshaft. For our example, that is exactly what we need. Look closely at the camshaft bolt and it’s slot, rotate the crankshaft counter clockwise until the sprocket moves about 1/16” in relation to the camshaft. Tighten the bolt, snug. Rotate the motor and tighten the other two bolts. (When the final camshaft adjustment is complete, check the torque of all three bolts on the camshaft one final time.)
Reperform the camshaft timing procedure. Continue to adjust and recheck the camshaft timing until the desired center line is achieved. In our example, that centerline would be 105. Most mild performance camshafts work well at 110 degrees. When running very high lift and long duration camshafts for racing applications, the center lines may go as high as 116 degrees. A good rule of thumb is that a lower center line will yield more torque and lower end throttle response and a higher center line will yield more maximum power output a higher RPM.
Once both camshafts are correctly timed and all six bolts are tight, the last step is to remove the camshaft bolts one at a time and apply a drop of Loctite thread locker. Reinstall the bolts and tighten to 120 inch pounds.
*******Do not forget this last step.*******
The torque of the camshafts bolts (three per camshaft) should be checked by a second person, completely independent of the person who originally performed the torqueing.


Thank You Joe
This is the kind of information Bill wants to build into a library of technical subjects
We will want to take this post and place it in our technical resource area
Dave


Original owner 78 1000 LTD
Mr Turbo Race Kit, MTC 1075 Turbo pistons by PitStop Performance , Falicon Ultra Lite Super Crank, APE everything. Les Holt @ PDM's Billet Goodies . Frame by Chuck Kurzawa @ Logghe Chassis . Deep sump 5qt oil pan. RIP Bill Hahn
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