82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound

  • Jbosh
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16 Aug 2016 20:34 #738980 by Jbosh
82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound was created by Jbosh
Hey all,

Attached here is something that I hope will help a few others in diagnosing thier bikes if they have a bad internal ticking in thier engine.

This is what was found.

Attachment image-2-3-4-5.jpeg not found


This crank shaft is out of round because there was found to be no crankshaft journal bearing for the right side.

This is the sound it makes.

Attachment trim.8EF95743-C059-415F-879E-045C21B84024.MOV not found


That is about 3/16" of play in the right side connecting rod on the crankshaft.

There was initial thoughts of a loose cam chain or of a loose starter clutch but both of those have been eliminated since disassembling the engine.

Hope this helps!

As long as I get to learn something, I'm happy!
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  • trim.8EF95...4024.MOV

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17 Aug 2016 07:42 #739008 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
The bearing shells were gone? What happened to the? Did someone "rebuild" the engine and forget to install the bearing shells?

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  • Jbosh
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17 Aug 2016 16:16 - 17 Aug 2016 16:34 #739040 by Jbosh
Replied by Jbosh on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
Ed,

I go into more detail in my build page as the bike has apparent history that I'm discovering over time as I work on it. I had no cause for concern when I bought it. Sounded great! Just purred! No clanking. Didn't even get 100km on the bike and then came a loud ticking noise more noticeable on the right. The only slight trace is a very very small amount of metal shavings that came up on the oil after. But it's like it didn't have a bearing shell as you are calling it because I can't find the rest of it!

As long as I get to learn something, I'm happy!
Last edit: 17 Aug 2016 16:34 by Jbosh.

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  • Tyrell Corp
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18 Aug 2016 04:48 #739092 by Tyrell Corp
Replied by Tyrell Corp on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
Bearing shells will still be attached to your con rod big ends. They are soft metal and the idea being they take the wear rather than the hardened steel crank. Different thickness inserts (identified by different colour paint marks) can be used to compensate for wear, using plastiguage clearance markers.

Cranks, cases and conrods are all individually measured and marked in size 3 ranges, shell bearings then fitted to make up the right clearance.

Selective assembly allows manufactureres to work to precise tolerances but also fast production allowing for wear in tooling.

1980 Gpz550 D1, 1981 GPz550 D1. 1982 GPz750R1. 1983 z1000R R2. all four aces
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19 Aug 2016 18:09 #739255 by car5car
Replied by car5car on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
i would fix it, no big deal.

96 Yamaha Royal Star
82 Yamaha Virago 920

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  • SWest
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19 Aug 2016 19:23 #739257 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound

Jbosh wrote: Hey all,

Attached here is something that I hope will help a few others in diagnosing thier bikes if they have a bad internal ticking in thier engine.

This is what was found.

Attachment image-2-3-4-5.jpeg not found


This crank shaft is out of round because there was found to be no crankshaft journal bearing for the right side.

This is the sound it makes.

Attachment trim.8EF95743-C059-415F-879E-045C21B84024.MOV not found


That is about 3/16" of play in the right side connecting rod on the crankshaft.

There was initial thoughts of a loose cam chain or of a loose starter clutch but both of those have been eliminated since disassembling the engine.

Hope this helps!


Crank is toast. DUH :blink:
Steve

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19 Aug 2016 19:35 #739259 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound

swest wrote: Crank is toast. DUH :blink:
Steve


Looks pretty bad for sure as arrow shows in image below. I wonder if the journal could be turned and oversized bearings used to compensate for the smaller diameter? Ed

Attachment 00003a-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-24-25-26-27-28-29-30-31-32-33-34-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45-46-47-48-49-50-51-52-53-54-55-56-57-58-59-60-61-62-63-64.jpg not found


1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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19 Aug 2016 19:51 - 19 Aug 2016 19:52 #739261 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
I guess it could be done. Seems they made slight differences with the 400's over the years. If no used crank is available, it would be the only way. Would it be worth it? :unsure:
Steve
Last edit: 19 Aug 2016 19:52 by SWest. Reason: sp

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20 Aug 2016 07:19 #739287 by mark in Portugal
Replied by mark in Portugal on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound
I had it happen on my 1977 kz400; for me the cheapest way out was to buy an entire used bike, take the crank and rods out, and throw away the rest.

So I seriously doubt it's economically viable to repair a crank like the one under discussion on a machine with very low value. like an '82 KZ440.
Of course it can be done; most likely there's too much wear for an available undersized bearing so the crank would be welded to add metal, then reground. It's done all the time for high value engines, but as you can imagine, it's not a really cheap procedure.
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20 Aug 2016 10:12 #739304 by car5car
Replied by car5car on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound

650ed wrote:

swest wrote: Crank is toast. DUH :blink:
Steve


Looks pretty bad for sure as arrow shows in image below. I wonder if the journal could be turned and oversized bearings used to compensate for the smaller diameter? Ed
]

Machine shops weld journals all the time, it is not a big deal. About $100. I am talking about real machine shops not bike shops.
Find out bearing sizes, and measure journal. I use digital measuring caliper, $30 from HomeDepot. People usually use micrometers.
Bearings can be +.25mm and +.5mm.
Find out specs for the crank and deduct .5mm

96 Yamaha Royal Star
82 Yamaha Virago 920

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  • SWest
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20 Aug 2016 10:36 #739305 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic 82 KZ440 LTD Rod Knock Sound

mark in Portugal wrote: I had it happen on my 1977 kz400; for me the cheapest way out was to buy an entire used bike, take the crank and rods out, and throw away the rest.

So I seriously doubt it's economically viable to repair a crank like the one under discussion on a machine with very low value. like an '82 KZ440.
Of course it can be done; most likely there's too much wear for an available undersized bearing so the crank would be welded to add metal, then reground. It's done all the time for high value engines, but as you can imagine, it's not a really cheap procedure.


Use to be done all the time in the day. I'd be concerned about what else has been munged up. :dry:
Steve

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