Install the Oil pan gasket dry?

77 KZ1000-A (not that it matters)

On hand, I got some Permatex 1 grey "MotoSeal". And I also have some Permatex "Aviation Form-a-Gasket" that I used to put the crank case together.

I also have lots of nothing, and my mating surfaces don't call for any filler, So I am leaning to nothing to make it easy to take apart; but want to pause and ask.

And..can I basically install all the cover gaskets dry, if surfaces are OK?

Cheers
Chris

Take a look in your Kawasaki Service Manual. It describes where sealant is needed. There are not a lot of places that need it, but there may be a few spots depending on the model bike you have. Ed

Hi Ed, Thanks.

It does not call for any in the Clymer manual, or the original Kawasaki training video posted on this site.

Wondering if anyone has found with experience that adding something is good practice after all...

Thanks
Chris

Here's my view on using sealant; others may disagree. If the idea of putting sealant on a gasket is to prevent a leak, please consider the following. Let's say you have two metal surfaces, i.e. a cylinder head and a valve cover, and there's a gasket that goes between the two. The purpose of the gasket is to prevent oil from leaking between the two metal components. So let's say you put the gasket in there dry (no sealant at all) and bolt the cover to the head squeezing the gasket between the two. Now consider if you could see that cover/gasket/head joint from inside the engine. You would see metal (the head), the inner edge of the gasket, and metal (the valve cover). Now you splash plenty of oil inside that area so the joint is soaked in it. Now looking from inside the engine you see oily metal (head), the oily inner edge of the gasket, and oily metal (the valve cover). If the oil is going to seep between the metal and the gasket will the oil care if it seeps between the head and the gasket or the valve cover and the gasket? No; if it is going to leak it can leak on the head side OR the valve cover side of the gasket. So, IF the only way to prevent a leak was to put sealant on the gasket you would need to put it on both sides. Fortunately, the dry gasket will not leak on either side, so no sealant is needed. This assumes no one has gouged the metal mating surfaces when trying to remove a gasket that some previous owner has glued on because they didn't know sealant was not needed. In that case sealant may be needed but only on the gouged area.
This brings up another point; in the Kawasaki service manual there are a FEW areas where sealant is called for. The best example I can give is a spot on the KZ650 clutch cover gasket. The manual calls for about 1 inch of sealant on a spot on the engine side of the clutch cover gasket where the gasket covers a joint between the lower and upper engine castings. This is required because mating surface has a seam at this engine casing joint which the gasket alone may not seal. This may not be obvious to someone doing this job the first time. So my best advice is to always consult the service manual to see if and where sealant is required rather than just gluing the gaskets on and later having to scrape them off. Also, you'll save money by not needing to replace gaskets as often because the ones put on dry can be more easily reused. The CD recording of this speech is available at the door. :laugh: Ed

Depends on how one defines "need" ..... problem is that we usually scratch the flange edge scraping the old gasket off. If the flange is perfectly smooth and clean (and not warped) you can use a dry gasket. If there are any scrapes or scratches, it might leak. The times I didn't use sealer and had slow leaks cured me of doing that. When you consider how rarely one changes the oil pan gasket, I will invest the extra hour I have to spend each time scraping the sealer off.

Simple answer...
For all new fibre /paper gaskets (NOT the head gasket) just grease both sides - NO SEALANT.
Head Gaskets should be installed dry except for a light smear of silicone fore and aft of the cam chain tunnel.
No grease should be used if using the Cometic coated steel type gaskets.

I use a rubber mallet to loosen the valve cover gasket once the bolts are removed. Tapping on the top all around until it bounces, then being careful I'll take an edge all around to be sure it is free. I'll leave it on the head and take the cover off. Most of the time I can reuse it. I've always wondered why this gasket wasn't rubber like the Honda's then that little voice says, it's so you have to buy a gasket every time you adjust the valves STUPID. Don't use Permatex on anything unless you don't want it off ever. Silicon can seep and I don't care if it does say gasket maker. There's no substitute for a new gasket. Kawasaki bond, Yama bond and the like is great for the case halves, silicon is not. It can be used to fill small voids as long as a good gasket follows. JMO.
Steve

I've never used sealant on the valve cover gasket and never had any leaks. I've reused the same gasket many, many times with no problems. Ed

The gasket on the Z1 is very narrow. It is very easy to break. I only reuse it if I have to.
Steve

650ed wrote: Here's my view on using sealant; others may disagree. If the idea of putting sealant on a gasket is to prevent a leak, please consider the following. Let's say you have two metal surfaces, i.e. a cylinder head and a valve cover, and there's a gasket that goes between the two. The purpose of the gasket is to prevent oil from leaking between the two metal components. So let's say you put the gasket in there dry (no sealant at all) and bolt the cover to the head squeezing the gasket between the two. Now consider if you could see that cover/gasket/head joint from inside the engine. You would see metal (the head), the inner edge of the gasket, and metal (the valve cover). Now you splash plenty of oil inside that area so the joint is soaked in it. Now looking from inside the engine you see oily metal (head), the oily inner edge of the gasket, and oily metal (the valve cover). If the oil is going to seep between the metal and the gasket will the oil care if it seeps between the head and the gasket or the valve cover and the gasket? No; if it is going to leak it can leak on the head side OR the valve cover side of the gasket. So, IF the only way to prevent a leak was to put sealant on the gasket you would need to put it on both sides. Fortunately, the dry gasket will not leak on either side, so no sealant is needed. This assumes no one has gouged the metal mating surfaces when trying to remove a gasket that some previous owner has glued on because they didn't know sealant was not needed. In that case sealant may be needed but only on the gouged area.
This brings up another point; in the Kawasaki service manual there are a FEW areas where sealant is called for. The best example I can give is a spot on the KZ650 clutch cover gasket. The manual calls for about 1 inch of sealant on a spot on the engine side of the clutch cover gasket where the gasket covers a joint between the lower and upper engine castings. This is required because mating surface has a seam at this engine casing joint which the gasket alone may not seal. This may not be obvious to someone doing this job the first time. So my best advice is to always consult the service manual to see if and where sealant is required rather than just gluing the gaskets on and later having to scrape them off. Also, you'll save money by not needing to replace gaskets as often because the ones put on dry can be more easily reused. The CD recording of this speech is available at the door. :laugh: Ed

Do you sleep with your service manual under your pillow?

chconger wrote: 77 KZ1000-A (not that it matters)

On hand, I got some Permatex 1 grey "MotoSeal". And I also have some Permatex "Aviation Form-a-Gasket" that I used to put the crank case together.

I also have lots of nothing, and my mating surfaces don't call for any filler, So I am leaning to nothing to make it easy to take apart; but want to pause and ask.

And..can I basically install all the cover gaskets dry, if surfaces are OK?

Cheers
Chris

MotoSeal.... I use it all the time...good stuff. Just a light coating. The one place I don't use it is on the clutch cover inner surface. I want that to stick to the motor. I put the sealer on the outside of that gasket so if you want to remove the clutch cover later to get to the plates / springs the gasket won't rip.

Last winter I tried it on a base gasket for a 1428 motor on 900 cases. If any place on the motor is prone to leaking it's right there because there's not much metal left down there after boring the cases for that big block. Ran all summer, including several significant tip overs and didn't leak a drop..

swest wrote: I use a rubber mallet to loosen the valve cover gasket once the bolts are removed. Tapping on the top all around until it bounces, then being careful I'll take an edge all around to be sure it is free. I'll leave it on the head and take the cover off. Most of the time I can reuse it. I've always wondered why this gasket wasn't rubber like the Honda's then that little voice says, it's so you have to buy a gasket every time you adjust the valves STUPID. Don't use Permatex on anything unless you don't want it off ever. Silicon can seep and I don't care if it does say gasket maker. There's no substitute for a new gasket. Kawasaki bond, Yama bond and the like is great for the case halves, silicon is not. It can be used to fill small voids as long as a good gasket follows. JMO.
Steve

That's pretty much the way I"ve done things for decades. Back in the dealership days we figured out early on that threebond of the Suzuki and Kawasaki valve cover gaskets made every valve adjustment after the initial 500 & 600 mile initial adjustment go a lot faster....because you weren't spending time scraping off the old broken bits of gasket.