If the starter is bad, and you don't feel a rebuild kit will help, read this:
Using a stronger Honda starter motor in a Kawasaki
Buda from the
www.kzrider.com
forum wrote:
Will not turn the engine over....10.25 10 1 comp 1170 cc......took starter out and ran it with a battery....the starter spins strong but starts to squeal after a second.....also the shaft has a lot of play side to side. Bad starter I’m guessing What do you guys think?
Took the starter apart.....the bushing on the drive end is cracked
MFolks Wrote:
For a stronger starter motor, read this:
Using a Honda Mitsuba SM-220 Starter in the Kz (copied from the KZ rider website)
The CB F's used 2 different starters. Look for the one marked .8kw. They also have one that is .7kw. This owner noticed a difference when he installed his. He read that you can remove the outer housing, and rotate it. this will re-align the outer power terminal, to a better location. if you don’t do this, you will need to grind some metal from the chain cover to gain clearance. Also install a heavier gauge wire to the starter , I’d recommend 6 AWG(American Wire Gauge) welding cable with the correct terminal ends to match the treaded studs for the solenoid and starter motor. Don’t forget the cable from the battery to the solenoid.
The stock KZ starter is .6kw in size
www.stockers.com/index.php?dt=HS-29
(Mitsuba SM-220)
Buda Wrote:
Thanks MFolks, Just ordered the rebuild kit before I read your post....If that doesn't work out I'll give the Honda starter a shot.
Got a the Honda starter MFolks recommended (SM 220 12 volt 0.8 KW) on ebay...hell of a difference.....Turns over like the plugs are missing....I'm sure the new battery doesn't hurt, but its a hell of a difference.
Gpz Eric Wrote:
The starter came from stockers - per a lead from Mfolks - good $139.00 mod - the one I got was marked .7, yet it has gobs of power. Trickiest part is spinning around the case to get the wire nut attachment at about 4 o'clock so it clears everything. I pulled off the front end of the new starter and almost dropped the internal bushings from the front end.
OnkelB Wrote: Very good tips, thanks.
Gpz Eric Wrote:
Honda Starter in GPz1100 (will also work in the Kz1000/1100’s)
I just finished installing a Mitsuba SM-220 starter in my GPz1100, and I have a little insight on this modification.
First, the bike I'm working on is my '82 GPz1100, with 35,900 km (about 22,000 miles) on it, and 500 miles since a top-end rebuild.
It cranked OK - but noticeably slower when hot.
After boring it out from 1090cc to 1136cc, and bumping the compression from 8.9:1 to 10.25:1 the started really labors to crank it over, especially when hot.
There's an old thread here by MFolks, with a link to where to buy a Mitsuba SM-220 (Honda) starter, so I spent the $139.00 and ordered one.
First, take off the footpeg mount, then pull off the chain cover/ shift lever linkage.
Take off the starter cover, and the two bolts that hold down the starter.
Wiggle/slide the starter back out of it's hole, and tip the back end of it up as high as you can, then the front end will come out where the chain cover sits.
Unbolt the wire by taking off the brass nut, and the starter is in your hand.
Holding the new starter & old starter side-by-side, they are dimensionally the same, but the wire connection is in exactly the wrong spot.
So carefully loosen up the two long bolts and take them off the new starter, being careful to not let either end of the starter fall off.
Wiggle the back end off, being careful as to not lose any spacers in there, and rotate it until the top is the top, and the wire sits at about the 4 O'clock position. Then rotate the front to match, and put in the bolts.
Make sure that the threaded holes for the starter cover are both on the top, because I neglected this, and had to take the bolts out and re-do it. Put it back together, and if yours is like mine, it now spins over like I forgot the spark plugs -
Zed 1015 wrote:
The earlier KZ900/1000 with kickstart has a two (2) brush starter motor and fitting the later J/GPZ (non kickstart) starter is an upgrade for these as they are four (4) brush. The .8kw Honda starter is usually a benefit on engines that have had a compression increase or big bore. All years of KZ and GPZ will take the Honda starter. The standard kz or GPZ starter is good enough though for std engines if kept in good condition.
Ed Spangler Wrote:
Intriguing!! Please forgive me for asking what may be obvious ( Im OLD.. thats my excuse) But....what year Honda starter and what year Kawi? have a '75 Z1-B 900 myself...so what year etc. Honda starter would fit mine?
Thanks.
Gpz Eric Wrote:
zed1015 is correct - the GPz starter had four brushes.
I took mine apart, and it still has plenty of brushes left, good spring pressure on them too, but the commutator isn't shiny copper anymore, it's scorched & black, and I suspect that if I take the starter over to the tool repair shop that the windings have broken down. The starter I put in has two brushes, where the stocker has four, so we'll see how long it lasts - if I get only 15 years out of it instead of 30 it'll be OK with me -
Zed 1015 Wrote:
The scorching on the commutator is common and usually caused by arcing.
A clean up with emery cloth (or if scored, a light skim on the lathe)and then lightly under cut the mica insulation between the segments should restore proper function.
Gpz Eric Wrote:
So whaddya think, do you suppose it's worthwhile to rebuild it, and put it away for down the road ? I can match up the brushes, and I've got a 6" Atlas Copco lathe in the basement - but if I throw the armature on the growler and it's been damaged by the heat I doubt I could find another one -
Zed 1015 Wrote:
Yes! it's worth doing. You have nothing to loose especially if you think it's damaged anyhow. I've salvaged loads that looked like scrap and wouldn't even turn.
If the commutator is scored then a just enough of a very light skim of the copper segments to produce a clean smooth surface for the brushes to run on then carefully cut back the mica insulation between the segments with a section of fine hacksaw blade.
Flush out the armature and body with brake cleaner then a very light smear of copper grease etc in the plain bearings on reassembly.
The windings rarely burn out under normal use and the usual cause of that is someone using jumper leads from a car battery to start the bike.
