Kick start woes.

After my first three days of riding this season I'm into some problems again. Let's start by saying the bike doesn't like to start when cold. I think that is an issue for the carb. forum. My electric starter makes a horrid sound every once in a while because it takes a while longer to crank than it should. It cranks and cranks and then sounds like an ooga horn (example vid at bottom) for a half a second then it keeps cranking. I've just been using the kick starter instead because its been working and I just want to ride! Now it seems the kick start is slipping though. Some times it works but not enough to get it started. I push down and it just clicks and slips all the way down. I took the clutch cover off to take a better look and it seems to be working intermittently. How do I actually pull that shaft out? Is it a matter of pulling the engine out?

www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/19...-us/o/m3960#sch84501

www.dansmc.com/kaw_kz650_oilflow.JPG



Any help is greatly appreciated!

RunningFree83 wrote: ...kick start is slipping though. Some times it works but not enough to get it started. I push down and it just clicks and slips all the way down....

If not already done, would perform clutch push rod adjustment.

Good Fortune!

I'll give that a look over! Do you have any idea why the starter would make such an awful sound?

Any other suggestions on what is causing this? Do I need to really tear it down to get at the gears on the kick start shaft?

I don't see any movement of the clutch spring plate, basket, or anything when you push the kick lever. I believe you should see some clutch movement unless something is amiss in the tranny or kick gear. It may not be possible, but I wonder if you can get a look up in there to see what's going on by removing the oil pan? Maybe someone else can chime in on what can be seen when the oil pan is removed. Ed

Even with the oil pan removed, you can't really see anything - the kick shaft is at the rearmost of the engine, partly covered by the oil filter flange and also the shift drum is in the way as you can see in the pic below (bottoms up view of my 650 D engine).

Unfortunately the only way you can access the kick starter ratchet/gears is to split the cases, no way around it.

Before you start tearing it apart there is one thing you can do to check if the kick start gears are working: put the bike in 1st gear, pull the clutch and activate the kick starter. If the kick start gear/ratchet is working the rear wheel should move.

Btw, the oogaah sound is your starter clutch slipping, common problem on the 650s/750 fours - caused by worn or broken plunger springs, worn starter clutch rollers, worn starter clutch gear or a combination of the above.

Thanks OnkelB! I'll check the kickstart in first gear when I get home from work and let you know.

Patton wrote:

RunningFree83 wrote: ...kick start is slipping though. Some times it works but not enough to get it started. I push down and it just clicks and slips all the way down....

If not already done, would perform clutch push rod adjustment....

A frequent error in performing the clutch push rod adjustment is turning the screw the wrong way to lightly seated before reversing it 1/4 turn to provide the gap needed to assure clutch engagement.

Absent the required gap, the kick starter may push through as if the clutch lever is being squeezed.

Don't trust the manual, as it may have erroneous or confusing instructions.

The clutch actuator mechanism will be either a screw type design or a ball and ramp type design.

The screw type adjuster screw turns in clockwise to lightly seat, then turns counter-clockwise 1/2 turn to provide the gap.

The ball and ramp type adjuster screw turns in counter-clockwise to lightly seat, then turns clockwise 1/2 turn to provide the gap.

If there's any doubt about the adjustment, would do it the reverse way to see whether it might resolve the reported kick starter issue.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

Patton wrote:

RunningFree83 wrote: ...kick start is slipping though. Some times it works but not enough to get it started. I push down and it just clicks and slips all the way down....

If not already done, would perform clutch push rod adjustment....

A frequent error in performing the clutch push rod adjustment is turning the screw the wrong way to lightly seated before reversing it 1/4 turn to provide the gap needed to assure clutch engagement.

Absent the required gap, the kick starter may push through as if the clutch lever is being squeezed.

Don't trust the manual, as it may have erroneous or confusing instructions.

The clutch actuator mechanism will be either a screw type design or a ball and ramp type design.

The screw type adjuster screw turns in clockwise to lightly seat, then turns counter-clockwise 1/2 turn to provide the gap.

The ball and ramp type adjuster screw turns in counter-clockwise to lightly seat, then turns clockwise 1/2 turn to provide the gap.

If there's any doubt about the adjustment, would do it the reverse way to see whether it might resolve the reported kick starter issue.

Good Fortune!

OK, let me take a stab at trying to diagnose this a little. I believe the electric starter and kickstarter problems are unrelated. The electric starter clutch may have a problem that has been discussed elsewhere in this forum before, and that would explain the bizarre noise when you hit the starter button. The clutch itself may also need adjustment as Patton points out. However, I do not believe the kickstarter problem is related to the electric starter or the clutch.

Here's my reasoning:

Depressing the kickstarter lever should cause the clutch hub to rotate regardless of the clutch being out of adjustment. Normally, this then in turn rotates the clutch housing which causes the crankshaft to rotate and the engine to start. If you pull in the clutch (or if the clutch is slipping badly), the clutch hub will still rotate, but it will not impart this rotation to the clutch housing so the engine won't start.

As proof - on any normal bike with the engine OFF and the rear wheel off the ground (bike on centerstand) put the transmission in 1st gear. Pull in the clutch lever. Depress the kick lever. You will notice that even though the engine does not try to crank over (because the clutch lever is pulled in) the rear wheel will rotate as you depress the kick lever. This means that even though you cannot see it with the engine buttoned up the clutch hub is rotating as the kick lever is depressed. This happens because the clutch hub is attached to the transmission drive shaft.

In RunningFree83's video as he depresses the kick lever neither the clutch hub nor clutch housing rotates (assuming I'm seeing the video clearly). This tells me the kickstart problem must lie in the kickstarter mechanism. I believe the kickstart ratchet gear is not engaging the kick gear. Since it is highly unlikely that these gears are worn out, I suspect there is a problem with the spring that normally would push the ratchet gear into the kick gear.

Anyway, that's my theory. If it proves to be correct do I win a Twinkie?

I have a feeling it is more of the mechanism and less of the clutch adjustment because at the very bottom of the kick sweep I can "sometimes" get it to turn the engine. But too much pressure and there is a snapping sound and it clicks through the rest of its sweep. I will send a twinky upon my revelation. Thanks for everyone's help!

I hope I am not reviving a very old forum topic, as there does not seem to be dates for forum posts (using mobile version).

Pressing the start button on 79 kz1000 for some reason all of a sudden stopped working. The starter turns over engine by using the screwdriver over soilnoid terminals approach. So it would seem further investigation is warranted.

I read on this topic how to test sidekick as my side kick did not seem to engage. There was no tention. I put in first gear, pulled in clutch and kicked down on kickstand expecting to move the rear tire. Nothing. Then I tried without clutch and bingo! Turned on my bike ignition and started on first kick. Without the clutch pulled in. I am riding again!

Thanks guys!