Oil and zddp question

This is what I use...I don't give a crap what others use.

www.bradpennracing.com/Default.aspx

Mcdroid wrote:

This is what I use...I don't give a crap what others use.

www.bradpennracing.com/Default.aspx

:laugh: ZDDP OVERLOAD :woohoo: I believe that stuff is "about" 2400PPM. But that's OK spark plugs are cheap and easy to replace. Provided that the people behind you while you are riding can stand the smell. Most of us don't realize (and frankly don't give a dam) how bad the exhaust stinks behind those of us who use so much ZDDP. :laugh: Even their regular 10w-30 is about 1500PPM (which I believe is more than enough for a V-8 running 6000-revs. :lol:
www.bradpennracing.com/Zinc.aspx

GOOOOOOOD stuff. Sort of like feeding candy to your neighbors kid. :laugh:

There is one point in this topic that we have neglected to discuss or even mention. The heavier an oil is, the harder it is to move it around and the more difficult it is for the rings to scrape it from the cylinder walls. This means, that it takes quite a bit of energy for the engine just to lubricate itself. This is one main reason why many automotive manufacturers today recommend 0w-30 and such oils. These oils give the engine much better economy and less of it is burned in the combustion chamber. There are many guys here who talk about things like 20w-40 and 20w-50 and how well it lubricates and so on. If it was only realized how much power and economy these oils consume in themselves. If Ford and GM make recommendations of 0w-30 and such oils to increase power, efficiency and decrease pollutants on engines of 5 and 6 Liters, how do you think these oils affect our puny one Liter engines. This is why companies like Brad-Penn and a few others who care about our engines, increase the ZDDP content as the viscosity of the oil weight goes down. For our engines, the lighter the oil the better for the performance output, but the protection has to come from somewhere, hence copious quantities of ZDDP. And if we stink like rotten eggs, DON'T RIDE MY ASS. :laugh: Oh I forgot, you have no choice. :laugh: Because I will always be way in front of you.

Performance cams require performance springs. That in itself places a greater surface load on the tappets. You want as much lubrication protection as you can get for such circumstances.

That speaks nothing of the actual surface finish on the cam lobes themselves. Some are truly better than others.

Out of all the used performance cams I've had pass through my hands, Andrews has clearly been at the top of the list for worn out lobes.... no matter what oil was used.

You also cannot forget that the oil also is subjected to the forces from transmission gears. It lives a harder life in these old KZ's than it does in car engines.

The requirements for a stock cammed engine are not as severe as they are for a purpose built, high performance street / race motor.

As long as there are flat tappet performance cams being run in both motorcycle and automobile engines, there will be failed lobes from time to time. Simple truth is, it happens. Sometimes it's from improper engine setup and sometimes its just a bad cam that was either not heat treated properly or broken in properly.

There are many factors that come into play where engine component failures happen. IMO it's foolish to not afford yourself any edge you can....

As far as new engines running on 0-20W oil, I doubt it is for engine wear considerations. Car makers face fines and problems if they don't meet the CAFE fleet gas mileage requirements and they want to squeeze every last bit of fuel economy they can out of their engines. The thinner oils do that. I don't know if the 0-20 oils are better or worse for engine life, I know they are wrong for our older engines.

I do know that new engines are made a lot tighter in tolerances than old ones ever were. I was shooting the bull with the master machinist at the shop that bored my head and he said the clearance spec on piston-to-wall for a new BMW was less than one thousandth of an inch. Our old engines are a lot looser.

As for oil: what I read said that for any bearing application, there is exactly one nominal set of specs for (true) viscosity, temp, clearance and bearing load. Done right, the viscosity is just enough that the bearing is riding on a layer of oil and the metal parts don't touch (theoretically). So a tighter clearance probably could run thinner oil.

larrycavan wrote:

it's foolish to not afford yourself any edge you can....

Amen, words to live by.

Mcdroid wrote:

This is what I use...I don't give a crap what others use.

www.bradpennracing.com/Default.aspx

So what sold you on this brand and why do you stand behind it?

Normally an Amsoil guy myself. but I'm interested.

Any prices on the 10-40 motorcycle oil?

On the average about $55-$60 for twelve quarts. So about $5 a quart. Not all that bad, all things considered. I pay about $14/Gal for the Rotella 10w-30 at Advance Auto. The ZDDP levels are only an insignificant bit lower in the Rotella but still WAY above the recommended requirements for our engines. That makes it about 30% higher than Rotella. One other thing you must not forget. Since Brad-Penn is not an oil that you can just go and buy, and you must order it, figure another $16/case shipping.

otakar wrote:

On the average about $55-$60 for twelve quarts. So about $5 a quart. Not all that bad, all things considered. I pay about $14/Gal for the Rotella 10w-30 at Advance Auto. The ZDDP levels are only an insignificant bit lower in the Rotella but still WAY above the recommended requirements for our engines. That makes it about 30% higher than Rotella. One other thing you must not forget. Since Brad-Penn is not an oil that you can just go and buy, and you must order it, figure another $16/case shipping.

The Penn web site kicked out some local places that supposedly carry it here in San Jose. There are probably dealers you can find using their locator. $5/quart isn't bad at all for good MC oil.

I did find some places semi-locally and called two of them. One wants $7/qt and the other $7.50/qt. Since it is NO better than the Rotella, why should I buy it since I pay $3.50/qt for the Rotella.

otakar wrote:

I did find some places semi-locally and called two of them. One wants $7/qt and the other $7.50/qt. Since it is NO better than the Rotella, why should I buy it since I pay $3.50/qt for the Rotella.

From what I have seen on a few forums, including the other kawi forum, Rotella is hard to beat for price/performance ratio. They had guys sending it to labs for analysis after 5k miles and it held up very well. I don't recall every reading a negative post from somebody using it.