synthetic oil?

"Friction Modifiers"!!! We don't need no Stinking Friction Modifiers!! Do you think we need Friction Modifiers? I don't think we need no modifiers of any kind!

Thanks Terry!

Bill

All great advice and just what I was looking for. I will run the ideas past my man and see what he thinks too.

BTW - I rode a bit today in the freezing cold. Carhart bibs, hoodie and all..... It was wonderful. The bike and I are bonding!

Thanks all!

Mobil-1 Racing_4T_10W-40 T.... Specifically designed for motorcycle 4 stroke wet sump engines.... I get mine at local Checkers auto parts ~ $9 a quart...

NOTE: Before you do decide to go this way, visually inspect your engine insuring there are NO oil leaks anywhere for synthetic will find it's way there....

Mobil 1 racing 4T 10w40 in my bike. Its got the zinc these old engines need!

Castrol 20-50

I buy it by the case and use it in every internal combustion engine I have from cars to lawnmowers and have never had a problem that was oil related in 25 years

TerryK wrote:

If you use a synthetic with friction modifiers, your clutch will slip relentlessly.

with friction modifiers being key word.
I had slip problems using standard car-type 20w50; when I did a change with amsoil synthetic motorcycle-specific it stopped.

Well...lets get right down to it. What is in the friction modifiers and how does it cause problems? I think I can understand with the clutch plates, but how could it possibly damage the engine itself? Further, when looking at the labels of synthetic oils, what do you look for to see if it has friction modifiers? I've looked at the labels of some oils (not Mobil) and they don't say one way or the other.

Then there is the other side; what is the advantage of running synthetics? I've run them in my car, but stopped because I saw no real advantage at that price.

Friction modifiers won't hurt your engine, but "may" cause clutch slippage. I've used them before and it didn't bother my clutch, but better safe by not using them. I've never used synthetic, but from what I've read it is mainly for extended drain intervals and/or better for engines that oil runs very hot. I'd stay regular oil, however I wonder what the long term benefit to using synthetic would be. I never took a picture of the internals of my 160,000 mile KZ650 engine, but changing oil every 2000 miles with Castrol GTX it wasn't pretty. Here's an engine that isn't mine thankfully, but my KZ650 looked this bad to give an idea how the castrol worked out over the long run.

polkat wrote:

Well...lets get right down to it. What is in the friction modifiers and how does it cause problems?

Moly or some kind of Teflon type product. I have used them in my KZ750 and never had a problem with the clutch, I think it is pretty rare that they affect the clutch but it is possible. BTW, oil companies started putting more of that junk in to replace the ZDDP they removed which older bikes really need.

polkat wrote:

Further, when looking at the labels of synthetic oils, what do you look for to see if it has friction modifiers? I've looked at the labels of some oils (not Mobil) and they don't say one way or the other.

They typically say "energy conserving" or similar on them.

polkat wrote:

Then there is the other side; what is the advantage of running synthetics? I've run them in my car, but stopped because I saw no real advantage at that price.

Bikes tear apart the viscosity enhancers in oils that turn the 10W base oil into 10W-40 oil (or turn 10W into 10W-30 or whatever). If the viscosity enhancers go away, you are left with 10W oil. It's because the oil runs through the tranny gears which act like shears to long molecules.

Synthetic oils require far less visc enhancers to "make the viscosity" of the milti grades so they are not so prone to visc breakdown over time. The viscosity in a standard oil can break down pretty badly in as little as 1000 - 1500 miles. This is one of the reasons syns can safely run a longer change interval.

RonKZ650, wow! That looks like the original '49 Ford engine I took apart last year! man.


bountyhunter, that all makes good sense and I understand it. I do remember that when synthetics came out there was a lot of talk about how it would make non-leaking engines running regular oil start to leak when switching to synthetic. Had to do with seal and gasket damage from the synthetic. I wrote that off to silly rumours, but...was there anything to it, and why?

polkat wrote:

RonKZ650, wow! That looks like the original '49 Ford engine I took apart last year! man.


bountyhunter, that all makes good sense and I understand it. I do remember that when synthetics came out there was a lot of talk about how it would make non-leaking engines running regular oil start to leak when switching to synthetic. Had to do with seal and gasket damage from the synthetic. I wrote that off to silly rumours, but...was there anything to it, and why?

I think it's one of the synthetic urban myths along with how it won't mix with regular oil and you have to flush the engine to make sure they don't coagulate.:laugh:

And the other myth about how synth is so "slippery" it won't let your engine break in right......

I don't subscribe to any of them. YMMV

polkat wrote:

RonKZ650, wow! That looks like the original '49 Ford engine I took apart last year! man.


bountyhunter, that all makes good sense and I understand it. I do remember that when synthetics came out there was a lot of talk about how it would make non-leaking engines running regular oil start to leak when switching to synthetic. Had to do with seal and gasket damage from the synthetic. I wrote that off to silly rumours, but...was there anything to it, and why?

Probably should mention: most oils sold as "synthetics" are not true synthetics they are just highly filtered dino oil which makes the whole topic even more complicated since a lot of "syn" oil is actually dino oil.

Some idiotic court ruling a while back made it legal for oil companies to call filtered dino oil 'synthetic" even though true synthetic is a man made lube not dino oil.