Cam sprocket placement - a few degrees off?

So, we're sewing up the kz, new valve stem seals are in place. While placing the cams, tightening down the upper chain guide sprocket and replacing the chain tensioner, the crankshaft backpedaled a few degrees from TODC on 1-4. It ended up halfway between T and F. So I rotated it back to TODC. After doing that, the T marks and arrows on the intake and exhaust camshafts are a bit off, as you can see in the pics. The exhaust T mark is a bit below the level of the cylinder head, while the intake is a bit above. How much, if any "slop" is allowable? The distance between sprocket teeth is about 9mm, so if I move both camshafts back one tooth on the chain, they'll be even more incorrect. This is my first kz rebuild, and I'd like it to be the last for awhile. Can one get away with being a few degrees off? Or is that a recipe for very bad things in the very near future?

Here's the exhaust cam, hopefully with the arrows visible enough. The previous pic got mislabeled, sorry for the confusion.

I think you will be fine, I was running my bike one tooth off for half the year.

With cam chain stretch it is hard if not impossible to maintain the correct pin count and cam positions. I would double check the pin count then rotate the motor over a few times by hand (stop if something does not feel right!!) then button it up and ride it!

I can't tell a lot from the angle of the photos. However, all that dirt on the frame around the valve cover isn't good.

Always clean things like that before you expose the internal parts.

"Can one get away with being a few degrees off"...

Maybe I'm missing something here....
You have the valve cover off w/top idler in place and have found your off in alignments right.

And your using OEM non adjustable sprockets...

So why are you taking a chance versus dialing her in at TDC? I don't get it!

Loosen the top idler, using the ignition bolt 17mm bolt, rotate to # 1 TDC. The reposition the the exhaust cam where dimple is perfectly aligned with the head decking.

Then count one pin up and the correct number over (ex KZ900 28 pins) and get your intake on the money....

Seriously, dial her in, why take a chance or where it just won;t run right especially after all you've accomplished now go half ass in your adjustments!

OMR

Here's the setup for a Z1/KZ900 just in case, didn't catch your model...

Its got the right pin count back from the exhaust cam (36 for a kz650). The arrows WERE lined up correctly at TDC, but after tightening the upper chain guide and tensioner, the crankshaft had moved back a tiny bit. It was only after I rotated the crankshaft back to TDC that the arrows got a little off. As it is right now, I'd say its less than half a tooth off. Moving the sprockets back a tooth would make the timing more off than it is now.

It does rotate freely, so no worries there. The dirt probably looks worse since I upped the contrast wayyy up in the pics so the arrows would be visible. Its still dirty though, duly noted.

Adjustable sprockets would be awesome, but this was a $400 "bucket of bike" special. I'm sewing her up and see if she works.

Thanks for the advice all, much obliged.

Skonnie: some of the folks here are perfectionists; and it takes all types so I am not criticizing. I am looking at your pictures, and if your showing 1 and 4 at tdc, with the right pin counts, and the cam marks that close I am sure all is good.

I don't know how the liter bikes work, or if some folks replace cam chains with their oil changes, but for a bike with 20 or 30k on it it becomes very hard to make it all line up perfectly.


Button it up and run the nuts off of it!

So your cam chain is stretched some.

Look EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING to set up perfect.

Oh well...
Set your crank up ,
Set your EX. cam ,
Count the pins ,
Install IN. cam ,
Button everything up ,
Either oil up or spray some lube on your valve gear ,
Turn the engine over several times with a wrench SLOWLY ,
If nothing is binding ,
and you did the pin count right ,
I would guess you are good to go .

Don't forget to readjust your tensioner after the bike has warmed up .

Thanks for the votes of confidence. The bike does have 29K miles on a non-working odometer. Nothing's binding, so the worst that can happen is that it won't run well. Better than exploding, right.

Funny thing is, I would've sewn her right up and kicked her over except I had to check valve clearances. 5 out of 8 isn't bad, right?

I kid.

Had a couple .04, .05 and .06 readings. The .04 is pretty tight. Might just have to wait until new shims arrive, I'm thinking. I haven't read anything on here to suggest that such tight readings are alright. Right?

The marks on my cam sprockets don't line up exactly with the head either. Actually...can't remember the last time they did. Normal wear and tear and stretching makes sure that things move around a bit. AS long as it's close you should be ok. If you are a little over the edge of the head and you change it by one link, you will probably be just under anyway. You can try to move the cam one tooth but I think you are where you need to be. As far as the clearances...you should be ok. Some like them tight while others prefer them on the loose side. No comments from the audience either. LOL Change them if you would feel better but they will be ok at those settings.

Seems silly sayin this ,but , make sure yer setting the cam timing with the sparkplugs OUT. It'll make it easier to get bang on !!

MAC

MDawnz1 wrote:

So your cam chain is stretched some.

Look EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING to set up perfect.

Oh well...
Set your crank up ,
Set your EX. cam ,
Count the pins ,
Install IN. cam ,
Button everything up ,
Either oil up or spray some lube on your valve gear ,
Turn the engine over several times with a wrench SLOWLY ,
If nothing is binding ,
and you did the pin count right ,
I would guess you are good to go .

Don't forget to readjust your tensioner after the bike has warmed up .

on my 1000,i put the cams in and put chain where it was supposed to be and the marks for fore and aft on sprockets didnt line up with head edge untill i cranked
down on the 4 cam caps....i was like wtf?.....the pin count is the big thing along with the lines being where they are supposed to be.....