New KZ Twin Owner looking for help with no start condition

Just got a good deal on an '81 KZ440 LTD for $300. Its low mileage (apparently) 12k miles, has some new parts and I'd say is presentable. But it don't start YET!

Battery is good. Haven't tested the compression but I do have some. Spark is good out of both wires. New gas, cleaned the carburetors, and am getting fuel. So, it turns over strong, but I'm getting ZERO combustion (even with a couple shots of starting fluid). Timing? Its electronic ignition. The mechanical spark advance assembly, I'm sure could stand lubrication, but looks good.

I've got a Clymer's manual en route, but as of now am stuck. What's my next move? Check the cam chain/alignment marks? The drive chain is off the bike. That wouldn't have anything to do with it would it?

Nice KZ site guys, glad I found it!

votumamor@gmail.com wrote:

Just got a good deal on an '81 KZ440 LTD for $300. Its low mileage (apparently) 12k miles, has some new parts and I'd say is presentable. But it don't start YET!

Battery is good. Haven't tested the compression but I do have some. Spark is good out of both wires. New gas, cleaned the carburetors, and am getting fuel. So, it turns over strong, but I'm getting ZERO combustion (even with a couple shots of starting fluid). Timing? Its electronic ignition. The mechanical spark advance assembly, I'm sure could stand lubrication, but looks good.

I've got a Clymer's manual en route, but as of now am stuck. What's my next move?

Always check the compression first.

If the plugs are wet, and you have spark, that is about the only thing left.

Did you install new spark plugs?

Might be a cheap fix.

This won't help you with your current problem of not starting but once you do get her running you'll need to make sure you have your air filter installed correctly. This might sound crazy but on the 440 LTD it is imperative or your bike is gonna run like crap. There was someone here a few weeks back and we had him checking all sorts of things and it turned out to be the air filter installation.

On your bike open the seat and grab the rear of the filter and try lifting it up, if it moves your filter is on wrong. There is a slot for lack of a better term on the airbox and the filter has to slide into that first before you install the two screws on the top. I'm just trying to save you from some future headaches.

Gentlemen, thanks for the responses. Ok, you're right. I should measure the compression. If that turns out ok, how can I test to see if the electronic ignition is working properly?...or at least at all. Because, if I've got compression, air, fuel and spark and still zero combustion going on.....that only leaves timing right?

Gringo, actually my air filter is missing right now. And the air box is missing the screws on the top to fasten it to the frame. I THINK I got a new air filter with the bike and will certainly install one asap after hearing your warning.

Steell, no I haven't yet, and I absolutely should. They look ok, no bad enough to keep it from running or sparking...but now that you bring it up it would be incredibly stupid not to...what 5 bucks and 10 minutes. Thanks for the reminder.

Hopefully I have good news and a running bike next time I post. Thanks all, cheers!

Took a look at the cam sprocket and timing marks and they appear way off to me. I also spoke the previous owner, and he confirmed removing the cam while replacing all the engine gaskets.

I'm working without a manual at the moment (its on order) but I'm assuming the two marks on the cam sprocket need to be parallel with the gasket surface (horizontal) and the arrow pointing forward. Can anybody confirm this?

So, from here I need to find TDC right? Then loosen the cam chain (tensioner?) and adjust the cam/sprocket to the correct position while retaining TDC. To find TDC on the compression stroke, do I just line up the "T" mark on the mechanical advance while on the compression stroke?

Not sure how to post pictures on here, but here's a link to some pictures of what I'm talking about.
s275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/xtreasurehunter/

I was looking up stuff for a buddy last week for his 440 Ltd. Check here for some useful goodies. www.kz400.com/WorkshopManFrameset-5.html Hope it helps!!
Iceman

votumamor@gmail.com wrote:

Took a look at the cam sprocket and timing marks and they appear way off to me. I also spoke the previous owner, and he confirmed removing the cam while replacing all the engine gaskets.

I'm working without a manual at the moment (its on order) but I'm assuming the two marks on the cam sprocket need to be parallel with the gasket surface (horizontal) and the arrow pointing forward. Can anybody confirm this?

On my 750 twin the TDC alignment of the cams is to have the arrows parallel to the head top, the intake arrow points to the rear, the exhaust arrow points to the front. On mine, you can then rotate the crank one revolution back to TDC again and the arrows will be pointed towards each other (still parallel to head).It may look like the cams are 180 out of time at that point, but they are not. On the twins, you can align the cams to either TDC position of the piston set.

votumamor@gmail.com wrote:

So, from here I need to find TDC right? Then loosen the cam chain (tensioner?) and adjust the cam/sprocket to the correct position while retaining TDC. To find TDC on the compression stroke, do I just line up the "T" mark on the mechanical advance while on the compression stroke?

YES. Understand, TDC on the twin's pistons is the same for either stroke. It doesn't become "TDC for the compression stroke" until you put the cams in. You can align cams on either crankshaft TDC.

When I spoke to the PO he had no idea about disturbing the timing. He said the bike was running before he changed all the gaskets (and unwittingly disturbed the timing). Thanks for the link the manual, VERY HELPFUL. Its telling me line up the "T" mark on the advance and line up the marks on the cam sprocket parallel with the gasket surface...arrow pointing forward.

I'm very optimistic about having a running bike shortly. Appreciate all the help guys and I'll let you know what happens.

Got the cam and valve timing set correctly, but it still won't fire on its own. With starting fluid it just backfires out the carb loudly. I just searched the forums on this. I'm done for the night, but here's what I have planned:

compression test
clean out tank and fresh gas
new air filter
new plugs
clean carbs again
reset mixture screws
rebuild petcock (leaking slightly)

Am I missing anything?

Seems to me maybe the timing is off 180 degrees, firing on open valves instead of closed.