GPZ1100A 84 Engine rebuild - Wont start

Hey all, I have an 84 GPz1100A2, just done a top end rebuild to replace a blown head gasket and since putting it back together I cant get it to start. I have a feeling I'm not getting the cam timing perfect (being i don't have the DFI manual only an older KZ1100 manual to work off.

I have set it up TDC1,4 --> EX mark pointing at head, <-- IN mark 44 links in the chain away, I was told to rotate the crank 360 and do it again so i did that and it still wouldn't start.

Plugs have fuel on them and getting good spark too so I cant see anything wrong it has to be timing to me.. I replaced the CDI pickups as they were damaged from a drop before I got it, do they have to be perfect or do they generally sit good?

Also I have no air filter for it ATM (Kawasaki AU don't have anything for my old girl) will this cause issues? I remember a GPz900 once being unfriendly till we got a proper filter for it...

The best we've got it running so far was 1 and 4 were firing 2 & 3 weren't really id it just sounded way out of time.

Are there any secrets to getting these running? Can anyone post me a picture of the cam timing from the real DFI manual? Please help this is killing me its so close to running again!

Cheers!

Post edited by: GPz_Aussie, at: 2008/01/12 21:30

id say try Lorcans 750 site,lots of fuel injection geniuses over there!

From the symptoms, it sounds as if the wiring TO the coils is backwards... If you are using the stock igniter and pickup coils, the BLACK wire coming off the igniter is your one and four cylinder wire. Whichever coil it is hooked to becomes the 1/4 coil. Make sure that the coil you have the 1 and 4 black wire connected to has the plug wires going to the 1 and 4 plugs. The other wire is green and should go to the 2/3 coil with plug wires going to the 2 and 3 plugs. I use Dyna ignitions to avoid having OEM ignition related problems (due to age). The Dyna ignition has a rotor that fits onto the mechanical advance. In the rotor is ONE magnet. When the 1/4 cylinders are at TDC, this magnet must be at the 9 oclock position or at least on the left side otherwise the pickup coils will send signals 180 degrees out from where they should to the igniter. The magnet is hard to spot... it is a small indentation in the paint.

It sounds like your cam timing is correct... all the 1100s time the same as I recall. If you are using fuel injection, I don't know much about this and do know that it isn't uncommon for older Kaw FI systems to have issues since I have sold LOTS of carburetors to early FI model owners... the KZ1000G and GPZ owners in particular.

Last, if you haven't set the cam timing on a bike before, it is easy to allow the chain to bunch towards the front of the bike down on the sprocket... hope you jiggled that chain and made sure it was out all the way. If you have turned the engine over 360 and it checked out once again at 44 links, you are OK there I think.

That's correct igniton information but it can't be that or it wouldn't even run on 2 cylinders.

As long as you see the cam timing arrows are perfectly level with the head surface, you should be ok in that respect. Be sure you start the pin count on the first pin above the exh arrow and NOT right at the arrow.

Also of importance is to properly install the valve cover. While it won't make any difference in the bike's potential to run or not run, you can over tension the cams chain if you don't remove the 17mm head, side cap from the tensionser before you bolt down the valve cover.

The rubbing block in the cover adds more tension to the chain. IF you don't let the tensioner plunger back up when you tighten the valve cover down, you've effectively over tensioned the cam chain.

How are your valve clearances and compression?


wiredgeorge wrote:

From the symptoms, it sounds as if the wiring TO the coils is backwards... If you are using the stock igniter and pickup coils, the BLACK wire coming off the igniter is your one and four cylinder wire. Whichever coil it is hooked to becomes the 1/4 coil. Make sure that the coil you have the 1 and 4 black wire connected to has the plug wires going to the 1 and 4 plugs. The other wire is green and should go to the 2/3 coil with plug wires going to the 2 and 3 plugs. I use Dyna ignitions to avoid having OEM ignition related problems (due to age). The Dyna ignition has a rotor that fits onto the mechanical advance. In the rotor is ONE magnet. When the 1/4 cylinders are at TDC, this magnet must be at the 9 oclock position or at least on the left side otherwise the pickup coils will send signals 180 degrees out from where they should to the igniter. The magnet is hard to spot... it is a small indentation in the paint.

It sounds like your cam timing is correct... all the 1100s time the same as I recall. If you are using fuel injection, I don't know much about this and do know that it isn't uncommon for older Kaw FI systems to have issues since I have sold LOTS of carburetors to early FI model owners... the KZ1000G and GPZ owners in particular.

Last, if you haven't set the cam timing on a bike before, it is easy to allow the chain to bunch towards the front of the bike down on the sprocket... hope you jiggled that chain and made sure it was out all the way. If you have turned the engine over 360 and it checked out once again at 44 links, you are OK there I think.

Post edited by: larrycavan, at: 2008/01/13 12:03

Ok I double checked cam timing last night and yeah it looks fine, I made sure the chain was taught before i out in the exhaust cam and yeah I counted from the first link after the arrow.

The coils are all wired ok, i managed to push start it last night but it just didnt feel right, 1 and 4 ran 2 and 3 ran but werent as hot... Would me being 1 tooth out on Cam timing cause this? I was told 1 tooth out and it wont run at all... Im thinking this because the tooth for the exhaust cam to start on is either slightly above or slightly under the head, I've got it on slightly above the head right now..

Based only on what you're indicating about the pipes getting hot on 1/4 and not on 2/3, try this.

Swap the coils around. Those coils allow you to unscrew the wires from them. Do that, swapt them and see if the hot pipe / cool pipe problem shiftst o 1/4.

Sounding rather ignition in nature because of cylinder pairs being affected.

If the problem shifts over to 1/4 after the coils swap, you've narrowed it down.

Check could resistances, primary and secondary, check plug cap resistance, wires.

Whenever I have a plug cap off an old wire, if there's enough length left to do so, I trim the wire a bit before installing the plug caps. Sometimes they corrode and you get a bad connection.

Check trigger coil resistance. Didn't you swap them out at one point? If they're used, one of them may be bad.

Is the battery full up to snuff?

Check your grounds for corrosion.

Improperly installed cams affect all cylinders, not just a pair.

Post edited by: larrycavan, at: 2008/01/15 09:23

another quick check, run a compression check to see if anything is way out of spec,I am thinking of possible valve clearance, you may have one or two tight

Yay she runs again!

I narrowed it down to a combination of a few issues, one was i did have the cam timing out by 2 links, I lined the EX --> up horizontal with the ground just above the head, seems it should have lined it up horizontal with the head, and just below it...

Also the pickups needed to be moved a bit to make 2 and 3 fire, I'm told there should be movement down there but this bike was dropped and they needed to be replaced when I got it so I'm presuming the damages down there has created movement...

Now after stripping 3 cam cap bolt threads from playing with the cam timing 10 times, i need to get it helicoiled before I can go riding though lol...

way cool, glad you got it figured out;)

Glad to see you sort it out.

GPz_Aussie wrote:

Yay she runs again!

I narrowed it down to a combination of a few issues, one was i did have the cam timing out by 2 links, I lined the EX --> up horizontal with the ground just above the head, seems it should have lined it up horizontal with the head, and just below it...

Also the pickups needed to be moved a bit to make 2 and 3 fire, I'm told there should be movement down there but this bike was dropped and they needed to be replaced when I got it so I'm presuming the damages down there has created movement...

Now after stripping 3 cam cap bolt threads from playing with the cam timing 10 times, i need to get it helicoiled before I can go riding though lol...

dont go over 7 ftlbs on the cam cap bolts.

did you check your valve clearences as well?

Exhaust valve clearances are all good, couple of the inlets are pretty close tho, i hate shimming