Stuck Kickstarter = Dead Bike

I'm pulling all this apart. Might as well. The pan will come off.

Thanks for the continuing advice!

Welp, you warned me to check on the size of the flywheel puller I needed.

I'm used to measuring on the threads for a bolt. Why didn't I remember that measuring on the INside of a bolt hole would be different. I measured 16" inside but the bolt itself with the threads should be the 18"er. Hmph.

So, more delays while waiting for the 18" puller to show. At least I can work on my entirely rusted up and not advancing advancer, which I'll post about separately.

Got a magnetic oil plug. Wonder if I can get the pan off without pulling the exhaust. Doubtful.

mind2find wrote:

Welp, you warned me...... I measured 16" inside but the bolt itself with the threads should be the 18"er. Hmph.

So that means the threads add 1mm of thickness on each side for a total of 2, eh? I didn't know that either. I had a feeling though, based on what the manual...*didn't* say... but think how many people you just helped...

...At least I can work on my entirely rusted up and not advancing advancer, which I'll post about separately.

I had one of those. Soak, soak, soak in penetrating oil. Just don't destroy those little rubber bits on the weights! And get some grease between the two parts (the shaft part and the floating part). Oh, and here's one more thing for you to save you the stupid error I made... When you reassemble, make sure the center part of the advancer is on the right way.... you *can* install it backwards, and the bike, obviously, will not start no matter how many times you kick it in 95 degree weather... don't ask... :lol:

Got a magnetic oil plug. Wonder if I can get the pan off without pulling the exhaust. Doubtful.

Doubtful, indeed. Got replacement exhaust gaskets? Ah, who needs 'em. Nobody does (until the backfiring starts... ) ...got an oil pan gasket?

Don't worry man, we'll get this thing running again!!

Sooooo, I tried to hold off posting before I had the pix with me, buuut...

I pulled the starter clutch off and found a MESS! now with that off, I can kick the engine over again! the bolts had completely sheared off and even made a mess of the clutch body. Even the thin plate that sits on the back of it was mangled a bit with the edge of the screw being jammed up against it.

The next step is to figure out the parts I need to replace.

- Definitely the 3 alan bolts
- Probably the clutch dynamo body

The starter chain and gears look just fine and there wasn't any metal mess behind the dynamo. There was however only ONE sheared off end of a bolt. Where are the other TWO? YIKES! That oil pan's coming off stat.

Pictures Coming!

If 77 650 engine parts will work. I think I can hook you up with some parts off my parts engine. PM me or email me.

Thanks for the offer Snake. Looks (according to buykawasaki.com's part diagrams) like the 77 650 and 76 750 use different setups for the starter clutch.

If anyone out there knows where I can find parts that match a 76 750 starter clutch setup, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks. (Pictures still on the way!)

mind2find wrote:

...If anyone out there knows where I can find parts that match a 76 750 starter clutch setup, it would be much appreciated!

I know the KZ400 from those years had the same starter clutch, because I used one from one of my spare 400 engines.

Remember, you don't need the pins, rollers, and springs. The starter clutch "thin cover" as you described it, can probably still be used even though its bent, as long as it doesn't hit the sprocket. Or just bend it back. Just get 3 new screws, mount the starter clutch back on the dynamo, and re-assemble with the starter sprockets and chain (and I don't know if your model has that thin washer between there, but use that too).

And yes, definitely find those screw heads! But remember, you already hinted that the starter sprocket might have been assembled backward by the previous owner. So, he might have removed the two heads as well.. who knows...

FINALLY got the pics here. What I'm wondering is, with the condition of these parts, should I really just put it back together with new bolts?



I'm all for slapping it back together (WITH some locking agent on those damned bolts) but I just don't want to go through putting everything back together if it's not worth it.

My only other concern is that one of the springs in the clutch is just a tiiiiiny bit bent up but would still hold almost its original form and will still slide into its cylinder.

Thanks for your advice guys.

FINALLY got the pics here. What I'm wondering is, with the condition of these parts, should I really just put it back together with new bolts?



I'm all for slapping it back together (WITH some locking agent on those damned bolts) but I just don't want to go through putting everything back together if it's not worth it.

My only other concern is that one of the springs in the clutch is just a tiiiiiny bit bent up but would still hold almost its original form and will still slide into its cylinder.

Thanks for your advice guys.

mind2find wrote:

....What I'm wondering is, with the condition of these parts, should I really just put it back together with new bolts?...

Other people will give you different advice, but I'm now taking a far-to-one-side stance on this issue. If I were you, I would leave out the starter clutch entirely. Just install the starter sprockets and chain and slipper washer and rotor. Basically just enough stuff to keep the oil pressure up due to the journal in the crankshaft under the starter sprocket, and the chain to hold it steady while in motion.

If you aren't willing to do that, then just put in the outer housing of the starter clutch with the 3 bolts, with red Loctite (make sure to clean the bolts and threads thoroughly), leaving the pins, springs and rollers out. And install the starter stuff, etc. THis way, if the bolts ever do come out again, you won't have springs and bits flying around, too.

Go ahead, call me crazy. But no more starter clutches in my 750 twins (and maybe my 400s, too someday). One locked up engine while riding was enough for me.

I know you and other can fix your starter clutch and make it work, but I figure it this way: I don't need it, its just prone to fail, why risk it?

:blink:

Hi Bique,

Long time since I've hit this thread but I'm finally about to have all of the parts I need to put this back together and hopefully have a running bike.

So what we've got here is my starter clutch assembly:



1.) Now, what you're saying is that I should put all parts back in this diagram except for #22?


2.) Don't you still need those 3 screws (#26, pictured just above the clutch) to hold it all together?


3.) or does bolt #17 in the center hold the rotor on? I don't have my manual right here unfortunately.


4.) Also, which one is the "slip washer", #20?


5.) One more: I'm not familiar with the term "journal". What were you referring to below?

Gettin' close! Thanks to Steell for the rare rotor I needed!

Post edited by: mind2find, at: 2007/10/27 21:31

mind2find wrote:

1.) Now, what you're saying is that I should put all parts back in this diagram except for #22?

Actually, on one of my 750s, I left out parts 21, 23, 24, and 25. I only re-installed #22 and #26. In hindsight, even though I used red loctite on the #26 screws and left out the pins and rollers, I wish I'd have left the whole shi-bang out. I *thought* I needed the housing for spacing... I did not.

Which is why, the second time I had this problem, on the other bike, I left out 21 through 26 (inluding the housing and screws).

2.) Don't you still need those 3 screws (#26, pictured just above the clutch) to hold it all together?

Yep. If you put the assembly housing in (like I did on the first one of my bikes).

3.) or does bolt #17 in the center hold the rotor on? I don't have my manual right here unfortunately.

Yes, #17 holds the rotor to the crankshaft. But the 3 #26 screws hold the starter clutch to the back of the rotor.

4.) Also, which one is the "slip washer", #20?

My bikes, because they are the later model with a different stator and rotor, don't have part #20 (I think). I meant part #29, which is a copper-looking washer that sits between #30 and #19 to ensure free spinning.

5.) One more: I'm not familiar with the term "journal". What were you referring to below?

I wasn't either until a nice guy from the KZ400.com forum pointed it out to me. It's TINY oil exit hole, ON THE CRANKSHAFT, underneath the starter sprocket. The hole is called a journal, because it is a passage in the larger oil flow system. You see, oil pressure is expected to meet a certain resistance between the crankshaft and the starter sprocket. Without the sprocket there, the oil would flow more freely, and perhaps at the expense of pressure elsewhere in the engine. Seriously, it was no biggie to put the starter sprockets and chain back in - at least *they* don't explode into a million pieces. And, you can amuse your frinds by having them hit the starter button and hear the "wheeeeee" sound of the starter and chain....

I hope that clarifies!



Post edited by: Biquetoast, at: 2007/10/28 00:09