Newbie probs starting bike

Hey Dustin: After looking over your plugs and wires and caps, you could definitely use replacements.

NGK (D8EA) plugs x 4 = $6 @ hardware store or NAPA
NGK plug caps/boots x 4 = $8 @ cycle shop
Belden Plug wire x 5 ft = $7 @ NAPA (7 or 8mm)

mmm...wire cutters...hhmmm

...hope your plug wires can be unscrewed from the coils...I think so and you'll need to remove the tank like we discussed to get at the coils. Good Luck!

KIT...Neil.

Man, dont look for the worst problem first, look for the easy fix first then keep working until you find it.

Have you done a full tune up on the bike, it may be as simple as a bad plug, and since you siad the fuel filter is full of rust, look at the carbs next, check the valve clearances, run a compression check.

yes you may need to invest in a few hand tools, but everything I just named off could probably be bought for less than 200 bucks, which wouldnt get you squat at a shop, plus you will use them over and over, think how much you just saved

I think now that I may have a better idea what is going on I may attempt the repair myself. But I didnt see anything about rust in the fuel filter... I just put seafoam in on a suggestion due to the age of the bike and the presenting problem. I still think that is a good way to go even if it didnt, in itself, solve the issue.

For me, this is just really daunting... I've never owned a cycle before, and certainly never worked on any kind of engine in my life! Computer networks - no problem. Psychology too... languages... whatever. But engines? Not a clue...

It's a lot of fun - just a steep learning curve!

guess that makes us about even, I can work on things mech, but when it comes to compouters and network type stuff, I have taught myself to fix them, a 2 lb hammer, I can fix it, ITS FIXED,, IT WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN!!!

Dustin, You are treating symptoms and going down some rabbit trails. The old adage about spark/fuel/compression seems to beg the point, why not troubleshoot the problem methodically? While this seems like an electrical problem, start with the compression issue first. THIS SHOULD BE THE FIRST thing you check when you buy a "new to you" bike. Get a compression gauge and check the compression. This often results in a valve clearance check which is #2 alongwith tightening your cam chain IF you have a manual tensioner. OK... have that out of the way?

SPARK? One cylinder is not warming? Basic troubleshoot 101 tells me that you should swap plug wires with the other wire coming off the same coil. IF the problem moves to the other cylinder, you have identified either a bad wire or cap. If the problem doesn't move and you have checked compression / valve clearances, then change spark plugs; especially the plug on the cylinder that isn't firing. A plug CAN have a bad electrode and short and just not fire. If the problem moves, replace the plug wire and cap. Heck, replace off of them anyway. The next thing to consider is that a bike won't work right if the battery isn't charging. it will start and run off the battery till the battery discharges and then all bets are off... plugs won't fire and you will foul plugs quickly. The troubleshooting for the charging system is more involved but still simple if broken down in steps. Let's pretend the battery is good (a new battery doesn't need to be good; cell can be dead) and the charging is OK for the moment...

If the electrical gyrations don't turn up the problem, you have carb issues. Two things come to mind... clogged air filter? clogged pilot jet? The pilot jet being clogged or a very dirty air filter will both cause your symptoms. The clogged pilot jet chokes gas off from the bike's idle and the cylinder won't kick in and the clogged air filter chokes off air and plugs quickly foul...

Sounds like you should get the ol' manual out and perform some basic maintenance and tuning steps and I bet your problems go away for a great riding season. You have an OLD bike... if you do the maintenance they can be fun and if you don't you can get pretty frustrated! Good luck.

Hi George - I *definitely* appreciate the information here and likely only beg some patience as I literally have never, ever, worked on anything mechanical before in my entire life. So, for example, when you mention I should check the compression I have no idea what this gauge is, where I use it to measure, or what the numbers I'm looking for. Much less how do I get to where this 'compression' is. Frankly I didnt know what a carburetor was until I looked it up on www.howstuffworks.com . Not unintelligent, just never worked on engines.

Unfortunately I'm headed out of the country tomorrow night for about 1.5 weeks so I've printed all the forum suggestions and I'll have to delve into it later when I get back on the 8th.

When I got the bike, I was given the bike and a single key (no owners manual, nothing else). So by the time I get back I should have won those items on eBay and will be ready to go!

Thanks again for everyone's help!

When you get back stop at your local auto parts store and get a compression guage. It screws in in place of the spark plugs. All 4 cylanders should be pretty close to each other, probably within 10 PSI or so. The manual will tell you what to look for for numbers. Personally I think your problems are probably pretty simple all things considered, but probably daunting since you have never done this sort of thing before. With the other problems, and low voltage, it's likely you have a fouled plug on the "cold" cylander. Just knowing you have good compression eliminates most serious and $$ consuming problems. Take it one step at a time like WiredGeorge said and we'll all try and walk you through the rest.

Ron

I had a KZ550 and now I own a Gpz550 and I can say that both bikes just fire up on the first try, always with full choke when cold...

eMusicMan wrote:

...literally have never, ever, worked on anything mechanical before in my entire life....Not unintelligent, just never worked on engines.

Believe you'll enjoy this link.
Dan's

Hope you're not touching the exhaust pipes to determine which cylinders are working when the engine is running. Spraying the exhausts with a common plastic hand water-sprayer bottle is handy to determine which exhaust pipes are hot (means the cylinder is firing) and the water will really sizzle. If cold (not firing) the water just runs off.


Some basics --

A gas/air mixture goes into the engine from the carburetor.

Electricity runs from the coils through the wires leading to the spark plugs. It arcs across the end tip of the spark plug which ignites the gas/air mixture inside the engine.

As spark plug wires get old, they gradually crack and deteriorate. This condition allows the electricity to leak out of the wires before getting to the spark plugs. And results in a deficient spark inside the engine. So the spark is too weak to properly ignite the gas/air mixture.

eMusicMan wrote:

...one thing that comes to mind since yesterday is that it was in the parking garage for my apartment... which has been foggy and very humid these last two days. Would sitting in a humid/foggy/wet environment stop the bike from starting?...

An easy fun way to test for defective spark plug wires is to spray a water mist on the wires at night while the engine is running in complete darkness. Maybe get a free fireworks show (as evidence of defective spark plug wires). However, lack of visible sparking does not guarantee soundness of the wires or absence of some other problem in the ignition system.

BTW,eMusicMan, what's your main instrument?

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2007/03/27 16:36

Patton wrote:

Believe you'll enjoy this link.
Dan's

Thank you - I was honestly looking locally in Madison for a small-engine repair course or something... this definitely fits the bill.

Patton wrote:

Hope you're not touching the exhaust pipes to determine which cylinders are working when the engine is running...

I didnt plan on looking at this avenue, so I was just holding my hand hear the pipe to see what kind of heat was given off... all good points though.

Patton wrote:

BTW,eMusicMan, what's your main instrument?

Actually, I've been DJing electronic music (house, techno, etc) for many years... so two turntables and a mixer have been my instruments, along with a host of analog synths, compressors, and such... Likely not something normally associated with motorcycles... lol

-D

Dustin,

You do know that you must put the choke fully on when starting the bike cold, right? Then ease off as the engine warms up. My bikes also have CV carbs, and I cannot get them to start cold without using the full choke -- then they start every time.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you sound like a babe in the woods, so something very simple like this may be the problem.

apeman wrote:

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but you sound like a babe in the woods, so something very simple like this may be the problem.

The information on the choke is definitely something I know about, and have been doing... so I think I am to the carbs at this point. All the information is helpful!