Winter storage

OP has most of the bases covered.

OP didn't mention what type of battery is in the bike. If a flooded wet cell or a AGM battery, we'd remove it and store it inside the house, charging on a maintenance charger once a month. A frozen battery will likely have a cracked case that will dribble acid on everything below it. Same with the tank. Drain it and store it inside if possible.

We're firm believers in not starting a motor unless the oil itself will reach operating temperature of at least 212 deg. F. Rule of thumb is 20 minutes or 20 miles of road operation, not just idling. A 20 mile ride will also likely produce enough hot exhaust gas volume to evaporate condensation in the cooler parts of the mufflers.

There's lots of thermal mass in the lower cases and items therein, plus the thermal mass of the motor oil. Even if the head and jugs are scalding hot from idling, all the mass of the steel in the tranny, clutch, crank and case areas farthest from the jugs will still be relatively cool, as will the oil in the bottom of the sump. Blowby will be at maximum at cold startup and idling, as lack of thermal expansion and low combustion pressure conspire to let more combustion byproducts blow by the piston rings into the crankcase.

One combustion byproduct is sulfur dioxide (SO2). Another is water vapor. When they combine in a cool crankcase it creates dilute sulfuric acid. Modern motor oils have acid buffers designed into the formula, but it's best practice to minimize exposure regardless. Motor oil must reach and hold at the the stated 212 deg. F. before most contaminants will begin to evaporate away in any meaningful quantity.

OP didn't mention brake fluid. If stored outside where temperature swings will generate external condensation, we'd flush the brake fluid at the beginning of Ridin' season the following spring.

That's our 2¢.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

slmjim+Z1BEBE wrote: OP has most of the bases covered.

OP didn't mention what type of battery is in the bike. If a flooded wet cell or a AGM battery, we'd remove it and store it inside the house, charging on a maintenance charger once a month. A frozen battery will likely have a cracked case that will dribble acid on everything below it. Same with the tank. Drain it and store it inside if possible.

We're firm believers in not starting a motor unless the oil itself will reach operating temperature of at least 212 deg. F. Rule of thumb is 20 minutes or 20 miles of road operation, not just idling. A 20 mile ride will also likely produce enough hot exhaust gas volume to evaporate condensation in the cooler parts of the mufflers.

There's lots of thermal mass in the lower cases and items therein, plus the thermal mass of the motor oil. Even if the head and jugs are scalding hot from idling, all the mass of the steel in the tranny, clutch, crank and case areas farthest from the jugs will still be relatively cool, as will the oil in the bottom of the sump. Blowby will be at maximum at cold startup and idling, as lack of thermal expansion and low combustion pressure conspire to let more combustion byproducts blow by the piston rings into the crankcase.

One combustion byproduct is sulfur dioxide (SO2). Another is water vapor. When they combine in a cool crankcase it creates dilute sulfuric acid. Modern motor oils have acid buffers designed into the formula, but it's best practice to minimize exposure regardless. Motor oil must reach and hold at the the stated 212 deg. F. before most contaminants will begin to evaporate away in any meaningful quantity.

OP didn't mention brake fluid. If stored outside where temperature swings will generate external condensation, we'd flush the brake fluid at the beginning of Ridin' season the following spring.

That's our 2¢.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Thank you.

The battery is gel based.. I don`t know more?
www.biltema.no/bil---mc/mc/mc-reservedel...g-scooter-2000019520

1. Do you advise to replace oil and filter start of new driving season or in the end of the season?
2. Do you like idea to drop some oil in the spark plug whole and turn the engine manual around some times?

Change the oil and filter before you put it away, take the gel battery in and tickle it monthly like stated and I always put a heavy tea spoon of 10/40 with a shot of wd40 in the cylinder's before turning it over with the kicker and the plugs out. Have read to slightly lower the tire pressure rather than raise it and some block the front end up to keep the front tire off the ground or at least when checking it every once in while spin the front a quarter turn to keep it from getting a flat spot.

gordone wrote: The battery is gel based.. I don`t know more? www.biltema.no/bil---mc/mc/mc-reservedel...g-scooter-2000019520

1. Do you advise to replace oil and filter start of new driving season or in the end of the season?
2. Do you like idea to drop some oil in the spark plug whole and turn the engine manual around some times?

According to Google Translate, the battery in the link is a gel-cell battery. More info on that type of construction here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

Agree with KZB2 650 on end-of-season oil change. We'd just inject an ounce (30 mL) into each spark plug hole then crank for a few seconds to distribute, then reinstall the plugs. Be gentle when tightening the plugs, as some oil might be on the threads. If you use a torque wrench, rule of thumb we use is to reduce torque by 30% on lubricated threads.

Something to maybe consider for cold, unheated storage: Many years ago we heated a home mainly with wood we got very cheap from a tree service. They would dump un-split logs 30 inches long and up to ~36 inches in diameter at our property. We would use a gasoline-powered hydraulic splitter to split them to a usable size. The motor was a 5 horse single-cylinder. We kept the splitter in an unheated outbuilding. At the start of cold weather we would place a small (~100 watt) heat lamp under the motor. This accomplished two things;
1) it kept the motor and oil barely warm-ish, which made pull-starting much, much easier in cold weather and,
2) it kept condensation from occurring at all.

Perhaps placing a heat lamp or other radiant heat source under the bike's motor would be possible if it can be done safely, out of contact with blowing rain or water. The radiant output of a heat lamp would probably be more effective at preventing internal condensation than the convective output from something like a gun safe rod heater in a covered carport environment that's open to the wind.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

After some thinking back and forth.... I don`t liked the idea to store the bike outside after putting so much hours and money into the bike...
So I wanted try to squeeze into my smal workshop...

I manage to get the bike inside, but it will not be so good place to working on the bike... but know I think the bike will be stored safe from cold weather... corrosion etc...

The workshop is not insulated.. but I have install a panel heater... my question is what shall I set the temperature to, some says above 50 ℉, if under I will get condensation problems, is that correct ? What is more safe ? 55 ℉ ?

I use to use wd40 to protect steel, but then I noticed the steel got less rusty without it. Not sure what happens but the wd causes pitting faster. Silicone spray seemed to work ok. So did a can labeled cosmoline that a previous owner of the house left behind... Not sure if its the same cosmoline used by the navy.

I use Boeshield T9 on my tools and they do not rust. I haven't gotten the tools wet, so I cannot say how well it would protect steel against rain, etc., but I can say that it totally stopped the rusting problem that I previously experienced on tools that were hanging in my workshop (I live in an area that often has very high humidity). I apply it and it takes a few days for it to fully dry. Once dry I cannot tell it is still there, but I know it is because it keeps working. I've used it for several years and have not needed to re-apply it. Ed

I personally don't use a heater, I think they are dangerous,
It's good that you have a wood floor.
Typically winters are low humidity, I think the problem with condensation happens in the Spring with the thaw.
In the spring we get a wet concrete from the moisture getting drawn to the cold floor.

I agree the fan heater type is dangerous, but I have installed passive one, something like these:
www.power.no/hjem-og-fritid/varmeprodukt...0-panelovn/p-114702/

They should be safe to use...?
I have set it to 15 degree celcius now.

Now that it is in a shed, it will be much better.

Like BlueJ said, now it will not get daily condensation like it would in the spring. It may still get some on extreme temperature changes (warm day after a cold day), but it will be better than getting condensation every morning. It doesn't take much to keep off the condensation in an enclosed space.

Air can only hold a certain amount of water in vapour form. The amount varies with temperature...cooler air holds less water than warm air. This is why you see dew on the grass in the morning.

The point where air contains the maximum amount of water at that temperature is called the saturation point or saturation temperature. Any lower temperature and the vapour will begin to condense out of the air. The most noticeable place in the winter for water condensation (but not the only one) is on a house window. This is because the temperature on the inside of the window glass it lower than the saturation temperature for the amount of vapour in the air inside the house. As room air circulates and contacts the glass it cools down and releases some of its vapour. The same thing will occur in full time RV's in the winter in colder climates because the walls are thin and the inside of the wall gets colder than the saturation temperature for the room humidity.

To prevent condensation you should have well insulated walls (and ceiling) and good ventilation. The first condition ensures the walls are kept above saturation temperature. The second ensures humidity will not build up inside the room. In very humid climates you may want to add a dehumidifier to keep the room humidity around 40%.

hardrockminer wrote: Air can only hold a certain amount of water in vapour form. The amount varies with temperature...cooler air holds less water than warm air. This is why you see dew on the grass in the morning.

The point where air contains the maximum amount of water at that temperature is called the saturation point or saturation temperature. Any lower temperature and the vapour will begin to condense out of the air. The most noticeable place in the winter for water condensation (but not the only one) is on a house window. This is because the temperature on the inside of the window glass it lower than the saturation temperature for the amount of vapour in the air inside the house. As room air circulates and contacts the glass it cools down and releases some of its vapour. The same thing will occur in full time RV's in the winter in colder climates because the walls are thin and the inside of the wall gets colder than the saturation temperature for the room humidity.

To prevent condensation you should have well insulated walls (and ceiling) and good ventilation. The first condition ensures the walls are kept above saturation temperature. The second ensures humidity will not build up inside the room. In very humid climates you may want to add a dehumidifier to keep the room humidity around 40%.

My problem is, I cannot insulate the walls etc... it`s not space enough, I`m happy I have been able to store it "inside" and not outside in a carport...
So the only thing I can do is the heater on, dry to dry the air.

I will set in a temperature meter and a humanity meter, so can I monitor current state.