Times they are a changin

Tony wrote:
"What's with the condescending attitude?"

When sweeping statements such as "It is much cheaper and lower on the carbon footprint to get the energy from a wall socket than a fuel tank" are made without considering the broader implications I lose a bit of respect for the author and it shows up in my replies. I live in a VERY highly populated area and I can assure you that if half the drivers in this area bought plug-in electric cars the power grid would go off like a flash bulb. It can barely (and often doesn’t) support the existing load in the summer (high A/C use) months. I’m happy to say that I don’t think that will happen soon. Ed

loudhvx wrote:

We've had three major fuel-related disasters this year harming water. None were coal-spills. At least with coal, we know where the damage is.

Ask the people in West Virginia weather coal has ruined their water or not.

testarossa wrote:

loudhvx wrote:

We've had three major fuel-related disasters this year harming water. None were coal-spills. At least with coal, we know where the damage is.

Ask the people in West Virginia weather coal has ruined their water or not.

loudhvx wrote:

At least with coal, we know where the damage is.

My point was that the damage won't show up in some random location thousands of miles away. Neither coal or oil are very attractive, but the solid is more manageable than the liquid. We've had two major oil pipeline bursts in the Illinois-Indiana area.

Here I am defending coal. WTF happened this morning? :blink: Believe me, I'm not a fan of one over the other, just making the point that coal is easier to contain. Both will run out. Both pollute.

who are these virginians you speak of?

and are you sure they are a threat?

testarossa wrote:

loudhvx wrote:

We've had three major fuel-related disasters this year harming water. None were coal-spills. At least with coal, we know where the damage is.

Ask the people in West Virginia weather coal has ruined their water or not.

loudhvx wrote:
"At least with coal, we know where the damage is."

Do we? How far reaching is the air and water pollution (not to mention the obvious out and out destruction to the mountains, animal and plant life, etc.)? Here are just a few examples of nice clean coal harvesting. Gee, I wish it was in my back yard. Ed

Coal Mines - Everybody's Best Friend

Ooops double post. :blush:

so is the issue the electricity coming out of the power grid.....or the method of spinning a turbine generator to produce those supplies......

because if it is just the way those turbines are spun that matters then we once again stand naked before the power brokers with our hands out palms up...please...Mr power companies...please can we have solar and geothermal plants built in the u.s from coast to coast..and please can we have windmills for as far as the eye can see...please please can we...please can we have clean energy....
for our electric zx-10's and electric S.U.V

650ed wrote:

loudhvx wrote:
"At least with coal, we know where the damage is."\


Do we? How far reaching is the air and water pollution (not to mention the obvious out and out destruction to the mountains, animal and plant life, etc.)? Here are just a few examples of nice clean coal harvesting. Gee, I wish it was in my back yard. Ed

Coal Mines - Everybody's Best Friend

Uhh, well yes, didn't we already know coal mines are huge toxic wastelands, and they pollute air etc etc. I thought that was pretty much common knowledge.

What I didn't know, but could have surmised, was that a huge pipeline of oil can burst next to a wetland and leak thousands of gallons of oil into waterways that eventually connect to the great lakes, as it did a few months ago.

I've already said it, but my point was only that as a solid, coal is easier to contain since it doesn't leak or spill. Both oil and coal pollute, both will run out, and both are necessary evils at this point.

What am I, the designated coal industry spokesperson now?

BTW, has anyone looked into the possibility that coal companies may have been involved with the Gulf spill, Exxon Valdez, etc?

The irony present in this thread is delicious.

testarossa wrote:

The irony present in this thread is delicious.

That remark is not lost on me :laugh:

speaking of delicious www.nigerdeltarising.org/history-us-niger-delta


i hear oil can be consumed safely as a way to combat the rising cost of food in these far off mysterious countries where we pillage our oil or do we pay the people that live there for it????oh well like it matters anyways who gets the money...as long as i get my oil...thats all i care about...so nay nay na nay nay.. .....

anyways i bet it's cheaper to send spoons to lap up the oil to the folks in Niger than to send crop seeds is'nt it......
why would they need money or food in the first place, if they have all that oil for us to buy up?.


so why waste time and effort to ship them food and human aid when they have all that great oil left over when we drill...they can eat that.....heck they are probably all rich anyways with billions in oil exports flowing like water everywhere... www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Peop...f-Food-89261457.html

at least they don't have to sweat the small things like...hmmmmm should i get the new nissan leaf or a 2011 zx10.....or just dump 5000 u.s into my old engine ???

they are so beyond that...lucky bastards

this just in........


we interrupt this thread to bring you breaking news......


a ship loaded to the top with windmill parts just ran aground off the Monterey Bay in California...splitting open and dumping millions of pounds of plastic turbine fins into the water where they will float ashore .....

elsewhere in an attempt to stop approaching troops from invading , Governor Schwartzneger is threatening to light all of Californias geo thermal pipes ablaze