Kiwi KZP

More
09 Nov 2015 07:24 #697903 by Irish-Kawi
Replied by Irish-Kawi on topic Kiwi KZP

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

All the gear all the time!

1985 Kawasaki GPz 750 (ZX750-A3) 15,000 original miles www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/601230...z750-refresh-project

Father - Husband - Bourbonr - Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 07:59 #697915 by jackleberry
Replied by jackleberry on topic Kiwi KZP

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

1997 KZ1000P (P16)
2001 KZ1000P (P20)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 08:11 #697919 by larriken
Replied by larriken on topic Kiwi KZP

531blackbanshee wrote: oooooooh shiney



so i seen no leading axle on the "new project"am i to assume it is a 1980 mk11???? :evil:
leon


You don't miss much Leon. Yes, it's a rather ratty ol Z1000 A4. I have wanted to own a Z1R for such a long time now but I came to the conclusion that with kids and mortgage and the Z1R rarity in New Zealand I wasn't going to be able to afford to buy one. For some reason there still seems to be a few A4's floating around so I am going to use this as the base for my version of a Z1R. Have been collecting Z1R parts for a few years in anticipation of doing this one day and finally the bike turned up that I could afford and was ratty enough that I didn't feel bad buggering with it. Had to sell my Suzuki to buy it but it's worth it!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 08:14 #697921 by larriken
Replied by larriken on topic Kiwi KZP

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


Thanks Irish, we don't have Ethanol in our pump gas here in New Zealand (yet) and we still have a 96 octane available at the pump. I have bumped up the base a bit to chill the compression out so I am pretty confident it will run okay. Nothing ventured nothing gained lol!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 08:24 #697923 by Irish-Kawi
Replied by Irish-Kawi on topic Kiwi KZP

larriken wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


Thanks Irish, we don't have Ethanol in our pump gas here in New Zealand (yet) and we still have a 96 octane available at the pump. I have bumped up the base a bit to chill the compression out so I am pretty confident it will run okay. Nothing ventured nothing gained lol!

Not a problem, and like I said just wanted to make aware in case you were not! And sounds like you have much better gas including 96 at the pump DANG! I have E10 91 octane max at the pump here in Colorado, so something I was always thinking about hahaha!

- Irish

All the gear all the time!

1985 Kawasaki GPz 750 (ZX750-A3) 15,000 original miles www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/601230...z750-refresh-project

Father - Husband - Bourbonr - Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 08:27 #697926 by Irish-Kawi
Replied by Irish-Kawi on topic Kiwi KZP

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore ;)

- Irish

All the gear all the time!

1985 Kawasaki GPz 750 (ZX750-A3) 15,000 original miles www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/601230...z750-refresh-project

Father - Husband - Bourbonr - Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 08:38 #697928 by jackleberry
Replied by jackleberry on topic Kiwi KZP

Irish-Kawi wrote:

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore ;)


- Irish



It may be related to the fact that running E10 through carbs jetted for gasoline will produce an effectively leaner mixture, which is more likely to detonate.

1997 KZ1000P (P16)
2001 KZ1000P (P20)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 10:33 #697950 by Irish-Kawi
Replied by Irish-Kawi on topic Kiwi KZP

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike ;)

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish


But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore ;)


- Irish



It may be related to the fact that running E10 through carbs jetted for gasoline will produce an effectively leaner mixture, which is more likely to detonate.

That sounds about right to me, and yes just switching ethanol % does end up needing a jetting change especially in higher altitude climates, at least that is my understanding of it.

- Irish

All the gear all the time!

1985 Kawasaki GPz 750 (ZX750-A3) 15,000 original miles www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/601230...z750-refresh-project

Father - Husband - Bourbonr - Rider

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
09 Nov 2015 11:33 - 09 Nov 2015 11:46 #697957 by 531blackbanshee
Replied by 531blackbanshee on topic Kiwi KZP

larriken wrote: so i seen no leading axle on the "new project"am i to assume it is a 1980 mk11???? :evil:
leon


You don't miss much Leon. Yes, it's a rather ratty ol Z1000 A4. I have wanted to own a Z1R for such a long time now but I came to the conclusion that with kids and mortgage and the Z1R rarity in New Zealand I wasn't going to be able to afford to buy one. For some reason there still seems to be a few A4's floating around so I am going to use this as the base for my version of a Z1R. Have been collecting Z1R parts for a few years in anticipation of doing this one day and finally the bike turned up that I could afford and was ratty enough that I didn't feel bad buggering with it. Had to sell my Suzuki to buy it but it's worth it![/quote]

i have seen several different moriwaki's that took a mix and match aproach between the mk11 and the z1r.




you are correct if you wanna build a z1r clone,
the mk11 seems the closest chassis wise.
i have always though that it was pretty much just the seat mounting that was different between the two.
besides for the obvious body work,seat, gauges etc.

well cool,can't wait to see that one come together.

keep us posted,

leon

skiatook,oklahoma 1980 z1r,1978 kz 1000 z1r x 3,
1976 kz 900 x 3
i make what i can,and save the rest!

billybiltit.blogspot.com/

www.kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/325862-triple-tree-custom-work

kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/294594-frame-bracing?limitstart=0
Attachments:
Last edit: 09 Nov 2015 11:46 by 531blackbanshee.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2015 08:28 - 10 Nov 2015 12:45 #698062 by larriken
Replied by larriken on topic Kiwi KZP
Yes, there is a left side!

Attachments:
Last edit: 10 Nov 2015 12:45 by larriken.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Nov 2015 12:51 #698090 by larriken
Replied by larriken on topic Kiwi KZP
i have seen several different moriwaki's that took a mix and match aproach between the mk11 and the z1r.




you are correct if you wanna build a z1r clone,
the mk11 seems the closest chassis wise.
i have always though that it was pretty much just the seat mounting that was different between the two.
besides for the obvious body work,seat, gauges etc.

well cool,can't wait to see that one come together.

keep us posted,

leon[/quote]

Yes, I quite like some of the bikes built with a bit of a mix from the two models.



Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • SWest
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • 10 22 2014
More
10 Nov 2015 13:06 #698100 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Kiwi KZP
Way cool.


Even as a kid, I never liked him. :dry:
Steve
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum