A little advice

Good Afternoon,
I would like to start off by saying Thank You to everyone for all of the knowledge that I have gained through the KZr forum within the past two weeks. Today, I finally decided to register and run my situation by you for a little input. I may have made a few mistakes, but I am learning and do not plan on making them again.

I have never owned a motorcycle, and unfortunately as a youth I was never shown how to disassemble a carburetor or work on a vehicle in any way. I taught myself enough about engines a couple of years back to rebuild the engine on my 91 Toyota MR2, and I have read quite a bit of literature on the subject. I have recently moved to Indiana, and two weeks ago began working on my future father-in-law’s 1978 KZ650 D1. When I got my hands on it the bike was not running, and had been sitting for a couple of years collecting dust with a full tank of gas. Since then I have had trouble peeling myself away from the thing. I have read a large portion of the Factory Service Manual and begun familiarizing myself with the different components of this bike, and restoring it one piece at a time. The first things that I did were washing the bike and degreasing the engine, it was REALLY dirty. Then I drained the carburetors by removing the screws at the bottom of each float drain. They were flooded with some really old gas. I tried to kick start it and it would not turn over. I then hooked up the battery to a charger that puts out 75 amps to jump start it. The positive terminal caught fire ..learning experience. I then stopped what I was doing and found your forum.
I siphoned the gas tank and got to taste gasoline for the first time, also a learning experience. Put in about 4 ounces of Seafoam and filled up the tank with Premium Gasoline, as well as sprayed some Seafoam into the carburetor through the opening in the airbox (after removing the airfilter which was a little on the old side). After successfully bruising up my legs for 5 straight minutes it turned over and smoked like the DEVIL. After some of the junk burned out of the carb it began to run relatively well, but would die if I left it to idle for more than 5 seconds. I changed the spark plugs which were black as night, the oil which was even blacker, and the oil filter.
The bike started up fine, and I rode a motorcycle for the first time in my 26 years of life… which by the way is a lot like being with a woman for the first time. I was a little awkward, a little nervous and it ended way sooner than I had hoped, but afterward I wanted to do a touchdown dance.
My next problem to tackle is the electric starter issue. Upon pressing the start button with the bike key on, and the bike in neutral the button has sparks behind it..small ones but they are there. I then learned (from this site) after removing the throttle and opening up the housing for the start button and checking the button for continuity or shorted wires that you have to pull the clutch which has a starter lockout switch. I reassembled the right handlebar and did the same process of pressing the start button but this time while holding the clutch. The solenoid began clicking and I heard something like a stomach growling coming from the starter, and that was all that happened. I then tried to stick a screwdriver and bridge the gap in between the two nuts on the top of the solenoid. It sparked quite a bit, but that was all that happened (the bike key was on and in neutral) after three tries it stopped clicking when I would hold the clutch and press the start button. MY thoughts are that the starter needs replacing, but that is only going off of the theories that I have after a night spent reading. It is hard to replace good old fashioned experience, but its all I’ve got to go off of. Any ideas on the issue or advice?
Also, I bought some blue magic to remove the rust from the chrome on the pipes and shocks, but do not want to use that until I have the bike working. There is about 75% of a second kz650 in parts scattered around the garage from a bike that was free and acquired at the same time as this one.

Hi Cajun!

Welcome to KZR!

"I then hooked up the battery to a charger that puts out 75 amps to jump start it. The positive terminal caught fire ..learning experience."

This may have damaged the starter itself.


"The solenoid began clicking and I heard something like a stomach growling coming from the starter, and that was all that happened."

The growling is probably the starter clutch complaining. I'd first check out the starter motor. If it's still good and all the connections are clean but the growling continues you need to service the starter clutch. It's not the easiest project but I can be done with the engine still in the frame.

Good Luck

Bill

Welcome aboard! Ed

Thank you Bill and Ed,

I have about three hours until I can finally get home to check out the starter. I have had the battery on a charger since last night just incase it was the culprit. I also thought about taking it to the local Autozone to make sure that I didn't have a bad cell. The first thing I am going to do is remove the cover from infront of the starter and check it. If the starter is my problem I will switch it with the one from the dismantled bike, and cross my fingers.

Starter Solenoid/Motor Checkout Procedure

Some simple steps to determine what is working and what's not:

1.Fully charge and test the battery(most bike shops can load test the battery, and then use a floating ball hydrometer to check specific gravity in the charged cells).

2.Clean all battery terminals of corrosion.

3.Tighten all starting related connections(Positive RED(+) battery terminal, Negative BLACK(-)terminal) and from the terminal to the engine case. All connections must be clean and tight. If the cables feel “Crunchy” when flexed, they may have corrosion inside the insulation, requiring replacement.

4.Clean the cable from the starter solenoid to the starter motor.

5.Clean and check the "bullet connectors" going to the coil side of the starter solenoid.

6.Try again to start the bike, keep in mind some Kawasaki’s have a clutch interlock to prevent cranking the engine while it’s in gear, so the clutch lever must be squeezed.

7.If no luck, go to step #8

8.Wearing eye protection, bridge with pliers or a screwdriver the two heavy duty(large)terminals on the solenoid. If the bike cranks, your solenoid may be bad.

9. If the starter won’t turn over, one of several things has happened; The starter motor has seized due to brushes binding up, lack of lubrication in the bushings of the motor, the battery is weak , the engine has seized or it could be a combination of any of the above. A website for starter motors is:

A. www.psep.biz/store/mitsuba_starter_motors_page_2.htm

B. www.nationsautoelectric.com/Kawasaki.html

C. www.whitedogbikes.com/cat--Kawasaki-Star...-Starter-Motors.html

D. www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/starters.php

E. www.dbelectrical.com/

F. http://.www.nationsautoelectric.com/Kawasaki.html

G. http:// www.dbelectrical.com/


10.The dealer may want $$$ for a new solenoid, but take your old one along and visit the nearest riding lawn mower shop. They have solenoids for about $15 that with a little work will fit. Be aware that the new solenoid from the lawn mower shop may require a ground wire for it to work.

11. I’d recommend upgrading from the existing battery cables to at least 6 gauge welding cables.
They are available in two colors(RED and BLACK) have more flexibility due to being constructed with finer conductors, and will fit in tighter areas.

12. The welding cable is sold by the foot, so take careful measurements or bring your old cables along. Most battery shops might be able to supply the cable too, so call to find out. The battery shop should be able to crimp/swage on the end of the welding cable the terminal ends or lugs using either a dedicated crimping machine or a tool that looks like a bolt cutter that has special dies to terminate the cable.

Welcome aboard Cajun! Following MFolks' posting should put you on the right track with the starter issue. If that and some rust are your only issue, then you are in pretty good shape. Have you fixed your idling issue? As far as the rust on your chrome, I have never used Blue Magic. But if that doesn't do the trick on the rust try this: I am in the process of cleaning up the chrome. If the chrome part in question can be taken off and small enough to be placed in bucket filled with white vinegar (headlight bezel, headlight stays, etc), the vinegar will save you some elbow grease. Just let it soak a few days. If the rust is just light surface rust, or the part is too big to soak in a bucket, try the following. First use Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) and soak the part over night. I did this on my pipes and shock springs by using MMO in a oil can and covering the surface with a film of MMO. The next day I used a green scotchbrite pad and most of rust on the the MMO soaked pipe came right off. Afterwards, I wiped the remaining rust/MMO off and used some more Scotchbrite pad dipped in mothers aluminum and mag polish. And this brought the chrome back to new. You can use the same process on aluminum as a first stage cleaning. Be careful not to put to much pressure when using the Scotchbite pad, otherwise you will leave micro scratches or swirls. Below are some results using the MMO/Mothers on the pipe, shock spring and rear set bracket: Good luck.
[img size=500x375] farm9.staticflickr.com/8241/8666202350_9b016165ed.jpg [/img]
[img size=500x375] farm9.staticflickr.com/8248/8665104257_38b529f241.jpg [/img]

Thank you for the walk through MFolks. That is going to save me alot of research. Hopefully I don't have to make it to the last step, but if I do I do.

KZJOE900 thanks for the rust tips. I have never removed rust before, some of it is surface and one part looks eaten clean through. I will take some pictures tonight. Great job on your pipes and springs by the way. Like night and day

Welcome Cajun
Unless I missed it somewhere I did not see how old the existing battery is, and after trying to jump it with bad luck , Maybe it needs to be replaced ??? Mfolks is a electrical guru , but the basics are always start with a known good power source and check for bad connections and brittle corroded wires.
Good Luck with the project. You have come to the right place for help
Dave

welcome bro

So I am stupid and dumbbb tooo .....all I know can be written on one page...at the top of that page is..."make sure you have great battery that you know is new and fully charged" under that it says..." I am too stupid to test batteries but can take money to wal-mart and buy a new one if i dont get lost or jumped on the way"
This solves many problems I have had...I use this method first then work on it if needed...but it solves the problem 99% of the time...of and weak batteries can foul a old plug at the same time so plugs are my next thing to check/replace....others know more here by far....i am dumbbb

Street Fighter LTD wrote: Welcome Cajun
Unless I missed it somewhere I did not see how old the existing battery is, and after trying to jump it with bad luck , Maybe it needs to be replaced ??? Mfolks is a electrical guru , but the basics are always start with a known good power source and check for bad connections and brittle corroded wires.
Good Luck with the project. You have come to the right place for help
Dave

You can also clean light to medimum rust of chrome with aluminum foil. Try this it works great. Doesnt scratch the chrome. Just take some aluminum foil and dip it in water. Then just scrub away. Makes the chrome look great and its cheap.

Almost 9pm my time and I have to get some dinner in me. So far tonight I got the battery checked and it is good to go. I switche out the wire that went from the battery to the solenoid. It was shorting. The solenoid then began to click again when I would pull the clutch and press the start button. Still no starting. I spent the next hour trying to remove the sprocket cover. I removed the 4 bolts, the two bolts on the starter cover and the shifter. I am 100% sure I removed all of the bolts but it still will not come off. I am very tempted to take a rubber mallet to it but not sure if I am missing something.

Cajun wrote: Almost 9pm my time and I have to get some dinner in me. So far tonight I got the battery checked and it is good to go. I switche out the wire that went from the battery to the solenoid. It was shorting. The solenoid then began to click again when I would pull the clutch and press the start button. Still no starting. I spent the next hour trying to remove the sprocket cover. I removed the 4 bolts, the two bolts on the starter cover and the shifter. I am 100% sure I removed all of the bolts but it still will not come off. I am very tempted to take a rubber mallet to it but not sure if I am missing something.

Wiggle :laugh: Wiggle :silly: Wiggle