Knee Dents in the stock tank... PHASE TWO CUTTING DONE!!!!

ibsen22000 wrote:

No problem twt, it's an interesting discussion.

The Origin of the Famous Norton Featherbed Frame

The Norton featherbed frame was created around an old fashioned long stroke single cylinder engine with a very top heavy cylinder head. The size of this engine dictated the space between the top and bottom rails of the full duplex cradle. In retrospect the result of this early effort enabled all kinds of engines using all kinds of configurations to be installed ion to this versatile and robust frame. Originally, it came with a bolt on rear sub frame which eventually got welded up particularly when the bolts came loose. Over time there where 3 major versions of the frame. These 3 major groups came in the bolted and welded variety.
a. The Manx racer in Reynolds 531 chrome moly.
b. The single overhead cam International in grade A mild steel.
c. The Dominator twin frames in grade B mild steel.
Then there where 2 subdivisions in category a. 16 gauge tube for the 500cc and the 17 gauge tube for the 350cc. Tube gauge is important so don't go putting a 500 in a 350 frame.
Then in category c.. in about 1959 or 1960, Norton put the old single cylinder Model 50 (350cc) and the ES2 (EaSy2, 500cc) into the featherbed to rationalize frame production. As you can see there where quite a few variations on what looked to be the same frame. Intact they came off the same jig. 1960 was the year the top rails where installed at the rear of the tank. This wasn’t just an Atlas mod, it was across the board. At the same time the tank design and its badges where changed.

The main reasons to have a standard bike converted into a cafe racer were: The need for speed, and being cool in all the right places (preferably where you could hear Rock `n´ Roll ) as well as being quite simply different. These machines were not only meant to transport you as fast as possible, but were also saying something about you and your distinct attitude. As such bikes where not readily available, you simply had to build them yourself.

Although there were some pretty fast bikes on sale from BSA, Norton, Triumph or Velocette, there was no model bringing the best of these together. A strong bike provided about 40 to 45 horsepower, but generally they did not have the look.


By the mid fifties bikers started to put Triumph engines into a Norton Featherbed frame. Since Triumph engines were considered to be powerful and Norton frames and forkes to deliver excellent roadholding, a new type of bike was born, the TRITON. A bike with outstanding handling and that delivered enough power to let you reach a 100 MPH, The Ton.

Accessories like clip on`s, special tail and head lights, racing carbs, exhaust pipes and alloy fuel tanks gave a special and individual touch to every single Cafe Racer. Although there are many TRITONS or DRESDAS on the roads, rarely do you see two that look exactly the same. All are different, tailored to the individual needs and taste of each owner. Here we´re actually talking of the first customised bikes, a trend which find its continuity with all those choppers, cruisers and, perhaps the true inheritors of the Cafe Racers, the modern Streetfighter.

And this is the bike that I have always believed was the one that the café racer builders had in mind, the 1953 Norton Manx.

Great read!

You shoudl have included something about how the Vincent was actually a much better, much faster engine, and that the real "diamond" of the cafe era was the Norvin.

And yes, I do agree that the Streetfighter is the natural progression of the cafe racer. DIY bikes stripped down and designed for speed with a lot of personal touches.Good stuff for sure.

Post edited by: twowheeledterror, at: 2005/12/21 14:55

has anyone ever tried banging the dents in? maybe making a form and beating that into the tank, obviously it could only be small shallow ones, but i think it could be done and probaly look real good if it were done right

Bugg wrote:

has anyone ever tried banging the dents in? maybe making a form and beating that into the tank, obviously it could only be small shallow ones, but i think it could be done and probaly look real good if it were done right

That's kinda how it's done when you hand form tanks, but not exactly. You make a buck, and then form the metal on a shot bag, checking it against the buck ever so often.

You wouldn't be able to make a "form" and beat the form into the tank. Might work if metal were made of liquid, but unfortunately it's not. lol

The problem is that Aluminum get's more stubborn as you work it, among other things.

I would like to point out that this is a tech section and I (along with others) moderate the tech sections. This discussion has turned nasty... This rule covers nasty:

CONSIDER THE IMPACT OF YOUR WORDS BEFORE POSTING
Adhere to the same high standards (or higher) of behaviour online that you follow in real life. In real life, most people are fairly polite and law abiding. The same rules of behaviour are expected on any list.

I suggest all parties immediately refrain from poking each other, calling names and wishing ill to others. Thanks for your cooperation!

Oh everyone gets carried away once in a while... We're all grown-ups here right. I think this is the best (and liveliest) thread I have seen in months!

dutchz wrote:

Oh everyone gets carried away once in a while... We're all grown-ups here right. I think this is the best (and liveliest) thread I have seen in months!

This is true. I also agree with WG in that we should at least try to be polite to one another. That said, Harry has been baiting TWT through several threads and does come off as a bit of a pompous ass...

TWT may be young, but he's also passionate. His tech is good, my only problem with his posts is that I want to see results quicker (I'm sure he feels the same way.) Alas, he doesn't have as much access to the big expensive machine tools as anyone would want, so he does what he can, when he can get to it. I know what the finished product will look like, and can't wait to see it actualized.

I also know that the tank in question is just a back up, and the tank that's actually going on the bike will be a jaw dropper!

So are you gonna swap sides on it, or weld in new metal?

guitargeek wrote:

So are you gonna swap sides on it, or weld in new metal?

New metal. The problem with swapping the sides is the front lines. The tanks sides are "bulged out" for lack of a better term... and if you swapped the sides the cut on the front edge would be "bulged in".

If it's tough to visualize I can make a photoshop to explain it. In fact, I think I will, cause I'm getting a migraine trying to visualize it. haha

Twt, I agree about the Vincent and the Norvil. Really great bikes. But the Norvil didn't come into production before 1961, and it is more of a factory build than an individual café racer.
Another reason the Vincents wasn't used for building café racers at the time was the price and the availiblity of donor bikes. The last Black Shadow was buildt around 1950, and they were produced in a small number, and the price was awfully high, compared to the Nortons and the Triumphs. There was no way a youngster from the working class could afford a Vincent on his salary in the 50's England.

And this is the place where it all started, The Ace Café in London:

www.ace-cafe-london.com/f1.htm

TWT:

Post more pics, you lousy SOB!



Or at least keep us updated on the side cover thing.

And don't mind any of the ribbing about being young. I'm definitely not the most experienced around here by far, but I often wish I'd gotten the riding bug younger. Enjoy every minute of it, keep doing your own thing, and most importantly keep those pictures and updates coming.

ibsen22000 wrote:

Twt, I agree about the Vincent and the Norvil. Really great bikes. But the Norvil didn't come into production before 1961, and it is more of a factory build than an individual café racer.
Another reason the Vincents wasn't used for building café racers at the time was the price and the availiblity of donor bikes. The last Black Shadow was buildt around 1950, and they were produced in a small number, and the price was awfully high, compared to the Nortons and the Triumphs. There was no way a youngster from the working class could afford a Vincent on his salary in the 50's England.

And this is the place where it all started, The Ace Café in London:

www.ace-cafe-london.com/f1.htm

I actually frequent that site more than any other site on the internet!

I go there to look for design concepts for my bikes a lot.

I like classic cafes, but I really kinda appreciate a hybrid theory.

Classic cafe styling and looks and positioning, but with modern upgrades to make the bike handle better.

For example, I like modern forks, but on cafes I prefer not to see inverted forks. I think it's too aesthetically modern for the bike. Now, on my current bike I am building (my 650) it's kinda a hybrid bike (I believe Justin tabbed it the "cafe fighter" ) and this may get an inverted front end. I've got a front end off of a 86 ninja, but that might go back onto the ninja. Only time will tell.

I recently got news that I am in the running for an apprenticeship with a local union that is a VERY lucrative opportunity for me. Should this go through (I'm crossing my fingers) I will be able to build the bike of my dreams....

A 100% authentic time period Triton.

GargantuChet wrote:

TWT:

Post more pics, you lousy SOB!



Or at least keep us updated on the side cover thing.

And don't mind any of the ribbing about being young. I'm definitely not the most experienced around here by far, but I often wish I'd gotten the riding bug younger. Enjoy every minute of it, keep doing your own thing, and most importantly keep those pictures and updates coming.

Funny you should ask for pics. I'm taking a break right now from cutting the tank with a rotary tool, and of course, I've got a lot of pics of this

Gimme a few hours and there will be an update on this project.

Thanks for the kind words dude. You should seriously start working on some stuff like this yourself! It's a piece of cake, and it makes the bikes sooo much more personal. I'd love to be able to inspire a bunch of people to get into seriously modding their KZ's!