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KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start

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17 Aug 2022 14:26 - 17 Aug 2022 14:30 #872402 by rstnick
Replied by rstnick on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
You can try swapping the two coil wires, black and green.
Easy to swap.
If they are connected wrong to begin with, the spark plugs will fire, but at the wrong time.

Swap the black and green coil wires, and try to start her.

This is an electronic Ignition diagram, points also use the green and black wires:

[IMG

Rob
CANADA

Need a key for your Kawasaki? PM me

1978 KZ650 C2, 130K kms, Delkevic ex, EI, CVK32, PMC easy clutch, ATK fork brace, steering damper, braced swingarm, ZRX shocks, 18" Z1R front wheel.
2000 ZRX1100
2011 Ninja 250R - Wife's
2005 z750s (aka GPz750)
1978 KZ1000 project
Last edit: 17 Aug 2022 14:30 by rstnick.

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  • gd4now
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  • Denco where did you go?
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17 Aug 2022 14:42 #872404 by gd4now
I agree with all that has been said. You do need to see if the plug will fire or not. You could see if changing to one of the other plugs into the plug lead on #3 place it against the engine and turn it over and see if it sparks.

Beyond that if you are attempting to start it without any type of air filter on any of the carbs it will be very lean and most likely will not start.

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

The following user(s) said Thank You: Nessism

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17 Aug 2022 18:24 - 17 Aug 2022 18:24 #872411 by Nessism
Replied by Nessism on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
When you rebuilt the carbs did you take them fully apart?  Soak the carb bodies in carb dip and replace the various O-rings?  Hold up the pilot jets to a light and make sure the tiny hole is open?  Check that the choke passage in the float bowl is open, and that the choke passage internal to the carbs is clear?  Check the fuel level using the clear tube method?
Last edit: 17 Aug 2022 18:24 by Nessism.

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  • BlackEyeCafe
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18 Aug 2022 12:58 - 18 Aug 2022 13:15 #872437 by BlackEyeCafe
Replied by BlackEyeCafe on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
So I am getting equal spark on all plugs. 

I did a complete tear down and ultrasonic clean I did the compressed carb cleaner ventury clean out to clear passages in the right order as seen on this site. The float bowls were levelled with the clear tube method. 

I tried to start with and without filters without success. 

I will attempt to switch green and black but I’m not sure I detached them. 

In any case I will let everyone know what happens. 

 

1977 KZ650 C
Jets - Main 115 - Pilot 17.5 - Needles - Position 3 - NGK BR7ES

Last edit: 18 Aug 2022 13:15 by BlackEyeCafe.

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18 Aug 2022 21:15 #872454 by F64
Keep a fire extinguisher near by.


Especially, if you are checking spark with the spark plug outside of the cylinder.

81-KZ440-D2.
Louis Dudzik's GM HEI ignitor conversion installed 2015 s3.amazonaws.com/gpzweb/Ignition/GPZgmHEImod.html
Motogadget m-unit blue installed 2017.
LIC, NY

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  • gd4now
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19 Aug 2022 12:05 #872486 by gd4now
OK went back and re-read the post and you have spark on a 4 plugs. A question I did not ask was what size jets and needle slots are you using.  Are you adding the pods or did a it come to you with them installed. Some of the less expensive pods have a lip on the rubber part that attaches to the carb that blocks or alters air flow to the pilot air jet.  If it did come to you with the pods did it run well before you cleaned the carbs up?  You can try to cover half of the carbs intake bell (upper half) with tape and see if it will start.

Will also be interested in what you learn regarding valve lash when you check it again.
 

1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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19 Aug 2022 13:25 - 19 Aug 2022 13:29 #872495 by Nerdy

Will also be interested in what you learn regarding valve lash when you check it again

 

Even if one cylinder's valve clearances are grossly out of whack, if the other three are within spec (and everything else is fine) I would expect the bike to at least try to start.

Apologies if I missed it in the thread, but a compression test wouldn't be a bad idea either.

EDIT: forgot to ask the OP a question. One plug was wet with fuel; what do the other plugs smell like? Black soot can be the result of running rich or burning oil. Your sniffer should be able to tell you what's happening.

1979 KZ400 Gifted to a couple of nephews
1967 Yamaha YCS1 Bonanza
1980 KZ440B
1981 Yamaha XT250H
1981 KZ440 LTD project bike
1981 GPz550
2013 Yamaha FZ6R
Last edit: 19 Aug 2022 13:29 by Nerdy.

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  • BlackEyeCafe
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20 Aug 2022 15:14 #872557 by BlackEyeCafe
Replied by BlackEyeCafe on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
Hey guys sorry for the delay, I’ve been working. 

The reason I did the valves is that when it ran last year it was puffing light white smoke from the exhaust.

I checked the compression (princess auto/harbour freight style tester, questionable I know) and found the following results #1-140 ,#2 -140, #3-100 , #4 -100. I was advised by some people on the site to check the valve lash and adjust the shims accordingly, I have those numbers at home.

I think I have run this motor for a total of 45 minutes after putting the carbs back together (I have the new jets and needles info at home as well) and installing new plugs.

The #3 plug was sooty and soaked with fuel, the other 3 were just sooty. I wouldn’t say the soot was that bad as you can see in one of the photos. 

The motor had pods when I bought it but I did get new cheap ones but I don’t see any obstructions. 

1977 KZ650 C
Jets - Main 115 - Pilot 17.5 - Needles - Position 3 - NGK BR7ES

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  • hardrockminer
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20 Aug 2022 15:24 #872559 by hardrockminer
Replied by hardrockminer on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
Check the obvious things first.  Is the float valve closing correctly?  Does the float move up and down correctly?  And is the float sticking against the side of the bowl?  Is your overflow plugged?

I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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  • BlackEyeCafe
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21 Aug 2022 05:46 #872591 by BlackEyeCafe
Replied by BlackEyeCafe on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
Thank you , I definitely will.  But presently unable to get at it due to work 

1977 KZ650 C
Jets - Main 115 - Pilot 17.5 - Needles - Position 3 - NGK BR7ES

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  • BlackEyeCafe
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21 Aug 2022 15:59 - 21 Aug 2022 16:05 #872626 by BlackEyeCafe
Replied by BlackEyeCafe on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
Not to sure if this makes sense but this is how I wrote it out


1977 KZ650 C
Jets - Main 115 - Pilot 17.5 - Needles - Position 3 - NGK BR7ES

Last edit: 21 Aug 2022 16:05 by BlackEyeCafe.

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  • hardrockminer
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22 Aug 2022 04:30 #872638 by hardrockminer
Replied by hardrockminer on topic KZ650. Carb #3 spitting fuel out. Wont start
Something is not right with compression in #3 & #4.  But that wouldn't prevent the engine from starting or the carb from flooding.

Just to be clear...when you increase the shim size you decrease your valve lash.  For example, when you went from a 270 to a 275 on cylinder #1 front, you decreased the clearance from 0.12 to 0.05.  I don't have the book in front of me but from memory I think you want about 0.15 valve lash.  Did you check after you changed shims?

I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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