TOPIC:

bemoore wrote: Re: Voltage Drops

I had a similar voltage drop from the battery to my coils. On here somewhere is a writeup about a "coil relay mod". It details how to run power from your battery through a relay to the coils. I did this, and the voltage drop to the coils went from 3 or 4 volts (I don't remember exactly) to a few tenths of a volt. I also had a problem similar to your "full throttle at high rpms only" problem, except mine was worse. Mine wouldn't rev past about 4000 rpms. This mod helped that problem a lot. It's not perfect now, but I can rev to redline. I think I still need a jetting change, though.

Also, another mod I did that I think may be better (at least in bang for the buck), was replacing the fuse box. At the time, I was going through the whole bike and cleaning up all the electrical connections. I still had too much voltage drop through my fuse box, even after cleaning every contact and fuse. I replaced it with a $3 blade type fuse box from a discount parts store. The difference was amazing. My lights were brighter, my blinkers were brighter and faster, and my horn was louder. I wish I'd have done this mod first. I might not have needed the coil relay mod.

Exactly how was you bike acting before the relay mod? I can go WOT after 5-6K so my guess is that at those RPM's the bike is making enough juice to overcome the voltage drop....but I dunno for sure...just guessing. Maybe at lower RPM's WOT throttle setting are wet fouling the plugs due to a very weak spark.

For now I'm going to just get the harness cleaned up and the new points/condenser installed and see if I eliminate that voltage drop.

But I can see a blade type fuse setup being a huge improvement over the current factory setup. I want to keep the bike factory stock as much as possible but this might have to be an exception.

I have already cleaned and polished the fuse holders with chrome polish and a q-tip and the fuses are still getting quite hot. Made a difference, but they are still getting hot. I still haven't eliminated the PO's terrible splicing job, so still holding out for now.

Can you tell me more about the fuse box you added in. Where did you locate it? Do you have a pic?

Motor Head wrote: Those splices look factory to me. I think that one of the reasons the Coil Mod was popular on some of these old bikes is this Brown Wire Splice. Feeding that splice, with just one of the same gauge wire is a bad choice. I know Kawasaki made it like that, but that was one of there mistakes. Latter they of course changed those circuits, added more fuses etc. There is a lot of stuff produced that has been miss-engineered from the factory.
Personally i'd go with a New ATO type Panel and rewire that bike to make sure of the correct current flow.
OMR (Old Man Rock) has a good write up on it, and his is a similar year/ model. Member Loudhvx has great bare bones wiring diagrams, in his signature, Bare Bones for Matty Light thread. Not to difficult to do, and you will have a much better electrical system. No more dull head light, much better spark etc.

I agree with you about that single small brown wire! The pic I posted above of the 1 to 3 splice is powering just about the entire bike. It's powering the headlight and the coils and that already seems like too much for that 18ga single wire.

I know some people will say, "but that's how the factory made them so it can't be wrong" but I agree with you that they messed up there. Maybe on paper a single 18ga wire is ok for the power requirements of the bike...I'm not sure.

Like I mentioned, I could grab the hazard light circuit right out of the key switch and send it to the right side switchblock to power the headlight with it. But its still being fed by the same white wire into the switch that powers the brown wire. I'm thinking that white wire is a thicker gauge wire, I'll have to take another look. I might end up getting the voltage drop eliminated with the original harness and still going to the relay mod. I do like the idea of it being a completely separate circuit from everything else.

I'll search out OMR's write up.

I've been too busy this week to mess with the bike more. Maybe tomorrow or the next day I'll have a chance to redo all the bad butt connectors with good bullet connector and get the new parts installed. I got my points/condenser in yesterday. I sure hope these new parts help me out. I hear/read quite often that condensers can go bad and cause it to send voltage to ground. But then I have also read stuff like "in 30+ yrs working on bikes I have never seen a bad condenser"

For one thing, you will see the incoming White Wire is much larger, as this is the Main wire to the Ignition Switch. All other Switched circuits come off of that White Wire.
I'm not sure about the other power wire from the Flashers in question, is it the same diameter as the Brown? You don't want smaller, larger is OK.

74ullc wrote: Exactly how was you bike acting before the relay mod?

It was hard to start, and it wouldn't rev past 4000 if in gear. In neutral, I could get it to rev higher. I think I have a lean spot that was too lean for the weak spark to consistently ignite. After the mod, it was easier to start, and I could rev past 4000 while in gear, but there is still a hesitation around 4000 rpms.

74ullc wrote: I can go WOT after 5-6K so my guess is that at those RPM's the bike is making enough juice to overcome the voltage drop....but I dunno for sure...just guessing.

No, it's more like the opposite. At higher revs, it's harder for the ignition to generate a hot spark. There's less time between each spark for the ignition to build energy for that next spark. That's the reason for dual point systems.

74ullc wrote: But I can see a blade type fuse setup being a huge improvement over the current factory setup. I want to keep the bike factory stock as much as possible but this might have to be an exception.

I felt the same way. I went through every bullet connector, and every multi-pin connector, cleaning every contact I could access, all in an attempt to NOT have to go with the relay mod and new fuse box. In the end, I gave in.

74ullc wrote: I have already cleaned and polished the fuse holders with chrome polish and a q-tip and the fuses are still getting quite hot. Made a difference, but they are still getting hot.

I had the same experience. That's what eventually convinced me to go with the modern fuse box.

74ullc wrote: I still haven't eliminated the PO's terrible splicing job, so still holding out for now.

Can you tell me more about the fuse box you added in. Where did you locate it? Do you have a pic?

I think I got it at Advance Auto. Maybe Autozone, but I think it was Advance. Other advantages of the new fuse box: 1, Spare fuses are easily attached to the fuse box with foam tape glued to a fuse case, and 2, The extra fuse slot (my OEM fuse box only had 3 fuses) was handy for the coil relay mod. This resulted in handy spares, and all my fuses located in one place, as opposed to having one inline fuse somewhere else where it could easily be forgotten.

Yes, the hazard (orange/green) wire is the same size as the brown wire at the location of the 1-3 splice in my photo. They both look to be 18ga to me. But I think the brown wire is larger in the headlight bucket so somewhere in that first foot or so of harness it must shrink?

I have been looking back thru some of your old threads and found some of yours about this brown wire. Looks like you've been looking into this voltage drop thing for some time huh!

So now I have a few more questions for you. The brown wire at the 6 pin connector under the left side cover is at the very end of the circuit correct? Then it goes into the reg and that's it? This is then where the reg sees whats there and dumps voltage accordingly to keep from overcharging the battery?

On my bike there the reg/rect are two separate units, so does the brown wire actually end at the rectifier? Brown wire is returning voltage and the white wire is new voltage being fed back into the system? I'm thinking of this like its water flowing thru pipes, probably not exactly how electrical current acts, but I'm still learning this stuff.

I know I checked the brown wire there at that 6 pin connector under the left side cover and I believe it was battery voltage there even with the key and lights on. I'll check it again, any specific way you want me to check it?

I can't check it with the bike running, yet, but will when its running again.

Would running the headlight with a separate circuit from the brown then cause the brown wire to be at a higher voltage (because its not accounting for the loss to the headlight on the other circuit) and cause the reg to dump too much voltage, causing the battery to slowly be bled down?

Isn't that part of the problem with the relay mod? Well....besides that it is just a way to avoid a problem and not fix it.

BTW...Any idea where OMR's write up is? I am not finding it.

You found one of my old charging system threads. That is for a newer model bike which has a 6 wire Rectifier/ Regulator. Yours doesn't have that same system. The wiring diagram I've been looking at here in File Base looks like the wrong one. Whats the bikes Year and Model? 77 KZ1000 A? D? Are you sure you have separate Regulator Rectifier units? I can't find a 77 KZ1000 wiring diagram with that set up.
That diode won't effect this side of your electrical. It won't cause a voltage drop. If there was feed back into the signals, more bulbs would light up is all.

I think the LTD's are B models.

With separate Reg and Rec, the brown wire goes only to the regulator, not the rectifier, and does the usual job of providing a sense line to the regulator.

As Motorhead has mentioned, a voltage loss at the brown wire, at the regulator, will cause the regulator to compensate by incorrectly increasing rectifier output to the battery resulting in voltage too high at the battery. This will look exactly like a failing regulator.

To determine if it's the regulator, or voltage loss on the brown wire, you measure the voltage, with a meter, from brown connection at the regulator to the battery's positive post. The meter will show the exact drop on the brown wire. If it's more than a volt, you may want to clean some connections and see if that helps the over charging problem.

If the brown wire is within 1/2 volt of the battery, and the battery voltage is over 15, then it could be the regulator.

Its a 1977 KZ1000 LTD (B1) model.

The factory service manual never published a color version of the wiring diagram for the B1. There is a good color version of the 1977 KZ1000A in the file base posted by Mcdroid

www.kzrider.com/filebase/cat_view/95-197...-kawasaki-kz-1000-a1

I haven't compared it super closely to the B1 diagram in my manual, but I think its very close. I'll look for differences and let you know if I find any.

The one just posted by loudhvx looks to be accurate also, so thats from Clymers?

This should be the correct one from File Base. www.kzrider.com/filebase/doc_download/278-z1000b1
It clearly shows the Diode you posted about also. It also shows you have a Regulator with 5 wires. Where the Brown is the voltage sense wire. So if at this connector, you have less than Battery Voltage, the R/R will make up the difference and charge higher. That is if your system is capable/ working correctly. The white from the Rectifier is the system output voltage, to charge the battery.

That's the same diagram as in my factory manual. I do not have a combo R/R. The diagram you linked to shows the regulator and rectifier separate....see the rectifier on the lower right, then the regulator is over to the left of the rectifier, just to the left of the battery and starter relay.

I'm hoping to have some time in the next few days to undo all the PO's switchblock splices and redo them with bullet connectors to attach right to the harness. Also gotta get the new points/condensers installed and setup.

Then I'll check voltage drop and go from there. If I still have a large drop then I dunno.

I might just end up changing my fusebox. The original box is still available from Kawasaki, but I do think a blade fuse type setup would be better anyways.

But first gotta get those connections fixed.

1. call dyna and order a dyna-s

2. install the dyna-s

3. live happily ever after.....fk points

No the diagram shows the Regulator and Rectifier as an assembly, and the Stator on the left of it, (labeled AC Generator).
You should have a three phase permanent magnet alternator/ generator, and a Combo R/R. That is what the diagram shows.
Which is where I was getting confused by you saying separate units. As the diagram shows a combo R/R.