TOPIC:

I have pods K&N pods and a 4 into 1 pipe on my 650 and it runs perfect. It took me awhile to get it tuned correctly but once there I have not touched them in decades. They are not effected my wind, temp rain or elevation.
You just need to spend the time in tuning.

Thanks for all the replies........this raises another question (and I hope this is not a thread snatch) what are the principles of using a wideband o2 , what is AFR and how does one use them to tune/jet carbs
At exactly 57 mph and at any speed over that I would lose a lot of power and it felt like carbs were running out of fuel or something....I recently took off the fairing you see in my avatar, I think it affected the airflow over the carbs and soon as I get it running again after the winter I will see what effect that had.

Patton, I am still laughing over your great comment and pic

bluezbike wrote: Thanks for all the replies........this raises another question (and I hope this is not a thread snatch) what are the principles of using a wideband o2 , what is AFR and how does one use them to tune/jet carbs
At exactly 57 mph and at any speed over that I would lose a lot of power and it felt like carbs were running out of fuel or something....I recently took off the fairing you see in my avatar, I think it affected the airflow over the carbs and soon as I get it running again after the winter I will see what effect that had.

Patton, I am still laughing over your great comment and pic

If you do an internet search for "air fuel ratio" and wideband o2 sensors you will get more reading material than you can shake a stick at.

I put K&N pods on my KZ1000-P7. The instructions that came with the pods said to increase the jetting 15% from standard jetting. Well that was my interpretation of them anyway. The instructions were rather confusing since they were trying to explain how to use the pods with all carbs on earth. I upped both the main and pilot jet to meet this instruction. Runs good. I checked the plugs to make sure the bike wasn't running rich or lean. The plugs look spot on. I did re sync the carbs when done with the jet mod. I also made a brace to support the back of the carb bodies to the frame. The instructions also said to do that.

On an inline 4 cylinder the two 'inside' cylinders are getting hotter air than the 'outside' filters too -

I never got the all-around, all-weather driveability with pods compared to the airbox - if only I could have my own dyno in my garage for fine tuning

loudhvx wrote: You will only notice this during light cruising, which is when you are typically at the leanest continuous running. .

Yeah..... my KZ-750 twin (California model) came with 40 pilots even though the rest of the world got 45. The 40 were for "reduced emissions". RAN TERRIBLE. Trying to cruise at a steady speed between about 35 and 40 in high gear it would always find just the right spot to start missing and bucking. kept taking it back to the dealer and getting nothing but double talk. A guy in the parts room took pity on me and clued me in.

Tumbleweeds wrote:

bluezbike wrote: Thanks for all the replies........this raises another question (and I hope this is not a thread snatch) what are the principles of using a wideband o2 , what is AFR and how does one use them to tune/jet carbs
At exactly 57 mph and at any speed over that I would lose a lot of power and it felt like carbs were running out of fuel or something....I recently took off the fairing you see in my avatar, I think it affected the airflow over the carbs and soon as I get it running again after the winter I will see what effect that had.

Patton, I am still laughing over your great comment and pic

If you do an internet search for "air fuel ratio" and wideband o2 sensors you will get more reading material than you can shake a stick at.

Do you have to weld in a bung? It would be to be able to use it to tune the bike then remove. I just bought a really expensive 4into1 from Werks and do not want to alter it. Using my old header will change tuning. Is there anyone that has of is doing this cheaply on a temp basis?

kaw-a-holic wrote:

Tumbleweeds wrote:

bluezbike wrote: Thanks for all the replies........this raises another question (and I hope this is not a thread snatch) what are the principles of using a wideband o2 , what is AFR and how does one use them to tune/jet carbs
At exactly 57 mph and at any speed over that I would lose a lot of power and it felt like carbs were running out of fuel or something....I recently took off the fairing you see in my avatar, I think it affected the airflow over the carbs and soon as I get it running again after the winter I will see what effect that had.

Patton, I am still laughing over your great comment and pic

If you do an internet search for "air fuel ratio" and wideband o2 sensors you will get more reading material than you can shake a stick at.

Do you have to weld in a bung? It would be to be able to use it to tune the bike then remove. I just bought a really expensive 4into1 from Werks and do not want to alter it. Using my old header will change tuning. Is there anyone that has of is doing this cheaply on a temp basis?

Yes, you typically would weld in a bung at the collector. After tuning, you put in a plug.
There are also systems where you attach the o2 sensor near the tail pipe and feed in a tube into the exhaust. They don't require welding in a bung. Being farther from the engine, they will use more heater current to keep the sensor hot, and there is more chance for dilution. I assume it works, but I don't know one way or the other if it is as good as a weld-in bung at the collector.

If I was going to go wideband, I would put a bung on each header.

If you read in the collector you could have lean and rich cylinders canceling each other out and appearing that all is well.

Tumbleweeds wrote: If I was going to go wideband, I would put a bung on each header.

If you read in the collector you could have lean and rich cylinders canceling each other out and appearing that all is well.

The thing is, It's not very convenient. The o2 sensor sticks out pretty far, and the wiring has a sheath which should not be kinked. The sensor gets fresh air through this sheath. So it all sticks out like 4 to 6 inches with the wiring.
The sensors must also be mounted in a slight downward angle to prevent water collection.
Taking all that into consideration makes for a difficult juggling act with wires etc. so the tire won't hit any of it. There will be wires everywhere.

The key is to make sure all the carbs are cleaned and set identically, and eliminate all sources of vacuum leaks, and exhaust leaks.

Then always check the plugs closely and look for any slight differences.
Usually if there is a significant difference in one cylinder to another, you know from some other symptom... popping, plug color, uneven idle, hesitation at cruising, etc.

Either way, it's no worse than trouble shooting an odd cylinder without a wideband.

From my personal experience, there is always some level of driveability sacrificed when running pods, even when jetted "correctly". I have two '77's. One with an airbox, and one that currently has K&N's (bought it that way). The one with an airbox is stock and tired, but has much more low end than the bike with the "pods" on it. (That engine is also a tight, recently rebuilt, properly-jetted, and mildy-built 1075.) There is just a very noticable lag right off the line, until the bike gets moving and the RPM's build...sort of like a car with a turbo. It's really quite annoying on my drive to work, with all the stoplights. On the highway, they work well and have a really nice "woosh" sound to them when you get on it.... and yeah, they look nice. My conclusion? I recently bought another airbox off of Ebay, that I reckon will end up staying on the bike once I install it. It's all trial and error, and preference. Don't be surprised if you put a bunch of work into "making it run right with pods" only to find that you're still not super happy with how it runs when you're all done.

A bung in each header will not gain you that much power increase, certainly not enough to make a difference on a street bike.
If you choose to weld in a bung, get a stainless steel plug for it so it does not rust in place.
I used an Innovate Exhaust Clamp inserted in the back of the exhaust can.