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loudhvx wrote: I took some photos for the Kz550 cam timing and valve warning page, but it will be some time before I can code it. I'll post some of the raw photos here for illustration.

1st is cyl 1 at TDC of the power stroke.
2nd is cyl 2 at TDC of the power stroke.
3rd is cyl 3 at TDC of the power stroke.
4th is cyl 4 at TDC of the power stroke.

The photos are not presented in firing sequence. Firing sequence would be 1 2 4 3. So that is the order you would see as you rotate the crank from one TDC to the next TDC. (Incidentally, this is basically how all inline-four Kz's would be, with very slight differences in lobe positions, but so slight, they would probably not be discernible in the photos.)

To simplify the manual,
When 1 and 4 are at TDC you are measuring intake clearance.
When 2 and 3 are at TDC you are measuring exhaust clearance.

So expanding to the four possible positions, according to the manual,
With cams in the 1st photo position, you measure intake on 1 and 3.
With cams in the 2nd photo position, you measure exhaust on 2 and 4.
With cams in the 3rd photo position, you measure exhaust on 1 and 3.
With cams in the 4th photo position, you measure intake on 2 and 4.

(Remember these photos are in numerical order, not firing order.)

So, if you follow the text of the manual, explicitly, some lobes will be pointed upward when measuring, and some will be pointed sideways when measuring. None are really pointing exactly away from the valve. (The valves are not vertical.)

I've done it using the manual's method, and using the "pointing away from the valve" method. The results do vary a bit. But if you aim for the middle of the range of clearances you should end up fine.

If I had to recommend one method over another, it would be to follow the FSM, and that includes the instruction on whether to change a shim or not. Don't "aim for the larger end of the clearance".

I went with this.. Lined them up to the tdc marks according to the picture to reference. I've posted my results to all 3 measurements (ignore the tight, loose and ok comments on the point away photo)

Ok, you have 3 photos.

Your third result is the point-away method, as it is labeled.

What method did you use for results 1 and 2? One is labeled "Kzrider", and the other is "Kaw theory".

Actually the first picture is following your post. The paper is titled KZrider. The second photo. Titled Kaw theory was from a Kawasaki manual. The one I originally while doing the process thought I had messed up along the way. (the exaust portion was well detailed, the intake was talking about t pointed arrows on my sprocket which I had none so I winged it and used timing marks) the paper titled point away which is third was a close enough, "looks about 180 degree" method.

kayodash wrote: Actually the first picture is following your post. The paper is titled KZrider. The second photo. Titled Kaw theory was from a Kawasaki manual. The one I originally while doing the process thought I had messed up along the way. (the exaust portion was well detailed, the intake was talking about t pointed arrows on my sprocket which I had none so I winged it and used timing marks) the paper titled point away which is third was a close enough, "looks about 180 degree" method.

Ok, so the one with arrows and T marks on the sprockets must have been for a different bike. Let's throw that away since we now know the marks on the 650's conflict with the marks on the 550's. (The method is the same, but the markings are different, which means the method will get messed up.)

So the first result labeled "Kzrider" result is actually the 550 FSM method, as long as you were sure to line up the T mark on the advancer, and looked at the cam lobe positions.

The second result was probably from following a manual for a different bike, which has different timing marks.

The third result was the "point-away" method.

The results on your point-away method don't seem right. It's actually too different from the FSM on cylinders 1 and 4.
( .005 loose ) and (.005 being too tight), is a big difference from your FSM results, which let you slip in .008 and .010.

How hard are you pressing in the feeler? It should be just a slight resistance at most.

I recommend you get a set of feelers that go down smaller, and do it again. I know it's a lot of work, but you really don't have enough results, especially for the intake side, to know what shims to get.

I think you want .001" increments from .001" to .012", or maybe even a little larger, if available.

And you probably want to print the following quote, as it is a little more concise than the manual's wording.

When #1 is at TDC on its fire stroke, measure 1 and 3 intake.
When #2 is at TDC on its fire stroke, measure 2 and 4 exhaust.
When #4 is at TDC on its fire stroke, measure 2 and 4 intake.
When #3 is at TDC on its fire stroke, measure 1 and 3 exhaust.

Note: Which ever cylinder has the cam lobes splayed outward, pointing away from each other, is the one at TDC on it's fire stroke.
Make sure to measure only when the crank is at TDC. (On the 550, that is when the T mark on the advancer mechanism lines up with the pointer in the ignition housing.) And only rotate the crank forward (same as the wheels of the bike would rotate).
Also note: the sequence is given in firing order ( 1 2 4 3 ), which is what you will see as you rotate the crank. (It is not listed 1 2 3 4.)

I'm also scraping the point away idea, like I said some may or may have not been exactly 180. I like the tdc method because of repeated results. I measured again this morning for my sake. Same results. actually just took the head off because of some broken bolts on the valve cover ( I know, right?) because of frame, how they broke and being in the front of it there was no way to get those bolts out. When I get the head back on ill check the clearances again. Hopefully with a smaller set of feelers.

If it's not one thing, it's another. Good luck.

kayodash wrote: I'm also scraping the point away idea, like I said some may or may have not been exactly 180. I like the tdc method because of repeated results. I measured again this morning for my sake. Same results. actually just took the head off because of some broken bolts on the valve cover ( I know, right?) because of frame, how they broke and being in the front of it there was no way to get those bolts out. When I get the head back on ill check the clearances again. Hopefully with a smaller set of feelers.

When not only precision but accuracy is critical on any measurement, the most important factor is the repeatability of the result. Stacking the deck in your favor so that every single time you measure you can do so in the exact same way every time and prove its the same "spot" will always provide the most accurate AND precise repeatable result. I applaud you for taking the time to ask the right questions, listen, learn and try all of these different methods and share with us so that we can learn too

Brett

As an update, I've got the shims out, all on exhaust side have a 255 In them. Now here's the kicker.. Cylinder 4 intake.. Has a 265.. Cylinder 3 intake I found a broken shim cannot read the size. Cylinder 2 intake..is either 215 or 275.. Can't quite make it out. Cylinder 1 intake looks to be either 275 or 225 I can't make out. Any way of measuring shims?? I tried holding the unknown next to the clearly printed and looked at visible thickness differences but they are close.

If you don't own a micrometer take them to any machinist to measure. He will most likely do it for free. If that's not an option for some reason swing by Home Depot, Lowe's, or an auto parts store and use one of their micrometers. Ed

Ran down to my local parts shop to get them measured. Him and his wife chuckled when they saw the broken shim after I told them I found the tick. I figured out what sizes I need. I guess I'll get into the 750, using similar method to measure clearances maybe I can swap a few out. Still have the head off the 550 due to the bolts breaking taking off the cover. Hope I don't run into the same thing with the 750.

kayodash wrote: Ran down to my local parts shop to get them measured. Him and his wife chuckled when they saw the broken shim after I told them I found the tick. I figured out what sizes I need. I guess I'll get into the 750, using similar method to measure clearances maybe I can swap a few out. Still have the head off the 550 due to the bolts breaking taking off the cover. Hope I don't run into the same thing with the 750.

I was a heavy truck mechanic for over 10 years while living in a climate where there is 6 months of winter each year (average), mountains of snow and bitter cold, followed by hot and humid summers . Every fastener we touch here is seized, so we learned quick how to deal with it. Here are some of the tricks...

With your typical KZ cam covers (steel bolts in aluminum threads, and way to many of 'em), I would say soak / spray all the bolts heavy with penetrating fluid as best as you can and let sit for a couple of days. Try gently to remove as many bolts as will come out w/o breaking. The stuck ones will take more extreme measures, but don't add more torque to the wrench - you will break the little SOB's. Get a propane torch (acetylene is better if you have one) and heat each bolt gently but thoroughly for several minutes. You aren't trying to get the bolt red hot or anything, just really hot and as far down the bolt threads as possible from the top. Of course, remove the fuel tank, plug wires, coils, etc..(anything that will burn, basically) before you do this. Some like to try removing the bolts while they are still hot. I will do that if all else fails, but I have found that the aluminum threads can pull out of the hole and stick to the bolt sometimes if you do that. So instead, after the bolt has cooled just a little, spray it again with the penetrating fluid (it will smoke, but that is ok). Wait until all the stuck bolts have cooled down, give them one more shot of penetrating oil, then squarely rap the top of each one solidly with a small hammer and a punch at least as big as the head of the bolt, hitting them maybe once or twice. Then try turning the bolt both ways to get them to break free. Sometimes they release when you try turning the wrench in the tightening direction, then can be removed easily. Once they break free, spray again with oil and keep the threads wet as you remove the bolt (prevents damaging the aluminum threads in the head).

Hope all that helps.