TOPIC:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

531blackbanshee wrote: oooooooh shiney

so i seen no leading axle on the "new project"am i to assume it is a 1980 mk11????
leon

You don't miss much Leon. Yes, it's a rather ratty ol Z1000 A4. I have wanted to own a Z1R for such a long time now but I came to the conclusion that with kids and mortgage and the Z1R rarity in New Zealand I wasn't going to be able to afford to buy one. For some reason there still seems to be a few A4's floating around so I am going to use this as the base for my version of a Z1R. Have been collecting Z1R parts for a few years in anticipation of doing this one day and finally the bike turned up that I could afford and was ratty enough that I didn't feel bad buggering with it. Had to sell my Suzuki to buy it but it's worth it!

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

Thanks Irish, we don't have Ethanol in our pump gas here in New Zealand (yet) and we still have a 96 octane available at the pump. I have bumped up the base a bit to chill the compression out so I am pretty confident it will run okay. Nothing ventured nothing gained lol!

larriken wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

Thanks Irish, we don't have Ethanol in our pump gas here in New Zealand (yet) and we still have a 96 octane available at the pump. I have bumped up the base a bit to chill the compression out so I am pretty confident it will run okay. Nothing ventured nothing gained lol!

Not a problem, and like I said just wanted to make aware in case you were not! And sounds like you have much better gas including 96 at the pump DANG! I have E10 91 octane max at the pump here in Colorado, so something I was always thinking about hahaha!

- Irish

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore

- Irish

Irish-Kawi wrote:

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore


- Irish

It may be related to the fact that running E10 through carbs jetted for gasoline will produce an effectively leaner mixture, which is more likely to detonate.

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

jackleberry wrote:

Irish-Kawi wrote:

larriken wrote: Funnily enough I have pondered it a few times for a bike running on pump gas. I have extra base gaskets at .04 and .02, on hand just need to sit down with the calculator and have a work out.

I know I am referencing an older post in this thread, sorry about that! I do want to start by saying amazing project and very cool, get job and congrats on being so close to the finish line! Regarding pump gas, here in the US of A we have ethanol infused gas, currently 10% but bill talking about driving up to 15% is gaining momentum from what I heard and read. Ethanol (in pump gas at least) lowers octane as well as brings water into the gas due to properties of ethanol. So not only is our gas lower octane rating due to ethanol but also very quickly absorbs water into it as well. If ethanol is in your gas in your neck of the woods I would be very careful with higher compression on the bike

Hope this helps and just wanted to make sure it was something that had been considered.

- Irish

But doesn't ethanol actually raise the octane? It shouldn't matter anyway, because when you're buying that E10 fuel rated at 87 octane... well, that's the rating, they took it all into account in the blend. Absorbed water would also increase the knock resistance...

E10 will still have less energy than gasoline, but that's a different problem.

I absolutely see where you are coming from and your train of thought, normally ethanol would increase octane, but from what I have read (cannot remember source for the life of me sorry), in this case when mixed with gas then detonation is actually more frequent compared to non-ethanol gas of the same octane rating. My point was, ethanol'd gas is not only worse due to water absorption which leads to internal rust, but also is typically found to have more detonation than pre-ethanol gas. If I can find (or someone else) can find some article backing this up I will post, but don't want to thread jack anymore


- Irish

It may be related to the fact that running E10 through carbs jetted for gasoline will produce an effectively leaner mixture, which is more likely to detonate.

That sounds about right to me, and yes just switching ethanol % does end up needing a jetting change especially in higher altitude climates, at least that is my understanding of it.

- Irish

larriken wrote: so i seen no leading axle on the "new project"am i to assume it is a 1980 mk11????
leon

You don't miss much Leon. Yes, it's a rather ratty ol Z1000 A4. I have wanted to own a Z1R for such a long time now but I came to the conclusion that with kids and mortgage and the Z1R rarity in New Zealand I wasn't going to be able to afford to buy one. For some reason there still seems to be a few A4's floating around so I am going to use this as the base for my version of a Z1R. Have been collecting Z1R parts for a few years in anticipation of doing this one day and finally the bike turned up that I could afford and was ratty enough that I didn't feel bad buggering with it. Had to sell my Suzuki to buy it but it's worth it![/quote]

i have seen several different moriwaki's that took a mix and match aproach between the mk11 and the z1r.




you are correct if you wanna build a z1r clone,
the mk11 seems the closest chassis wise.
i have always though that it was pretty much just the seat mounting that was different between the two.
besides for the obvious body work,seat, gauges etc.

well cool,can't wait to see that one come together.

keep us posted,

leon

Yes, there is a left side!

i have seen several different moriwaki's that took a mix and match aproach between the mk11 and the z1r.




you are correct if you wanna build a z1r clone,
the mk11 seems the closest chassis wise.
i have always though that it was pretty much just the seat mounting that was different between the two.
besides for the obvious body work,seat, gauges etc.

well cool,can't wait to see that one come together.

keep us posted,

leon[/quote]

Yes, I quite like some of the bikes built with a bit of a mix from the two models.

Way cool.


Even as a kid, I never liked him.
Steve