Okay, I GOT a digital camera, frame update pics inside!

the thing that i have learned welding over the last few years is that safety comes first. not just safety concerning your welding practices, but safety when it comes to your responsibility for the work you do.

we don't want to hear that your welding abilities(or lack of them) have caused you (or anyone else) harm.

--r

Post edited by: solomrus, at: 2006/03/14 10:16

:whistle:

solomrus wrote:

the thing that i have learned welding over the last few years is that safety comes first. not just safety concerning your welding practices, but safety when it comes to your responsibility for the work you do.

we don't want to hear that your welding abilities(or lack of them) have caused you (or anyone else) harm.

--r<br><br>Post edited by: solomrus, at: 2006/03/14 10:16

I'm kinda confused by this statement. Please clarify.

Just wondering what you're implying.... for the record the stats on those welds is 110A/30V with .035 wire and the welds were second checked by a 35 year veteran professional welder and board member of the Twin Cities chapter of the American Welding Society.

If you want to elaborate on what you feel was done wrong instead of being passive aggressive (if that's what you are doing) please feel free.

Post edited by: twowheeledterror, at: 2006/03/14 10:43

i had some concerns about some welds that looked as if they weren't up to snuff on your frame. they are up to snuff, according to you, according to your expert, so they should be safe.

that is all that i am implying, or even saying in so many words.

my statement was simply saying that YOU are ultimately responsible for YOUR welds. if YOU are confident that your modifications are sufficient for your safety, then that is all i can be concerned with.

i'm not trying to hint around, and make accusations that i am really not justified in making. pictures on the internet are notoriously bad indicators of the conditions of things.

you and i share an interest in a hobby, and i am merely trying to make sure that you aren't going to get hurt.

is that clear enough?

--r

solomrus wrote:

i had some concerns about some welds that looked as if they weren't up to snuff on your frame. they are up to snuff, according to you, according to your expert, so they should be safe.

that is all that i am implying, or even saying in so many words.

my statement was simply saying that YOU are ultimately responsible for YOUR welds. if YOU are confident that your modifications are sufficient for your safety, then that is all i can be concerned with.

i'm not trying to hint around, and make accusations that i am really not justified in making. pictures on the internet are notoriously bad indicators of the conditions of things.

you and i share an interest in a hobby, and i am merely trying to make sure that you aren't going to get hurt.

is that clear enough?

--r

By all means.

I'm aware of the fact that even after a project leaves the shop or garage with my welds on it I am responsible for said welds. That's why I take the time to properly setup and really think about the parameters of the setup before I go about welding anything at all.

Part of professionalism is putting a little effort into making the work you do top notch all the time, no matter what it is.

I put the same effort into welding coupons for shits and giggles that I do for my frames cause really they are no different. They both reflect the caliber of word I can be expected to do.

I will say that the pics definitely are not good indicators though. The welds done on the brackets are double pass on each side. The ones that look really cold on the gusset for the subframe are actually in a crater because of the way the gusset was set in there, and it's a triple pass on the top and bottom of each side which explains the "gummi worm" effect it seems to have with such a high shadow.

twowheeledterror wrote:

By all means.

I'm aware of the fact that even after a project leaves the shop or garage with my welds on it I am responsible for said welds. That's why I take the time to properly setup and really think about the parameters of the setup before I go about welding anything at all.

Part of professionalism is putting a little effort into making the work you do top notch all the time, no matter what it is.

I put the same effort into welding coupons for shits and giggles that I do for my frames cause really they are no different. They both reflect the caliber of word I can be expected to do.

I will say that the pics definitely are not good indicators though. The welds done on the brackets are double pass on each side. The ones that look really cold on the gusset for the subframe are actually in a crater because of the way the gusset was set in there, and it's a triple pass on the top and bottom of each side which explains the "gummi worm" effect it seems to have with such a high shadow.

fair enough.

good luck on your project.

--r

Post edited by: solomrus, at: 2006/03/14 12:28

how thick are the tabs you are using? 3/8" a65 plate?

timber wrote:

how thick are the tabs you are using? 3/8" a65 plate?

The gussets on the subframe and the brackets for the suspension are 6mm. (Approx 1/4").

The gussets on the subframe and the brackets for the suspension are 6mm. (Approx 1/4").

oh, thought they looked alot thicker than that. i have done alot o welding. alot o heavy duty structual welding. an as far as any questions about penetration cant be answered by looking at a weld. you have two ways on knowing for sure, x-ray the welds or cut it in half an inspected the weld.

then again you could do what they guy who tought me how to make sure my welds had the proper amount of penetration, he would hit everything with a big, big hammer. if it didnt fall off it was good. sbjones knows who i am talking about, (jw) the guy would put me to the test. he cut off a bumper i welded on to inspect the weld. then told me that was a good job an do it again. LOL

timber wrote:

The gussets on the subframe and the brackets for the suspension are 6mm. (Approx 1/4").

oh, thought they looked alot thicker than that. i have done alot o welding. alot o heavy duty structual welding. an as far as any questions about penetration cant be answered by looking at a weld. you have two ways on knowing for sure, x-ray the welds or cut it in half an inspected the weld.

then again you could do what they guy who tought me how to make sure my welds had the proper amount of penetration, he would hit everything with a big, big hammer. if it didnt fall off it was good. sbjones knows who i am talking about, (jw) the guy would put me to the test. he cut off a bumper i welded on to inspect the weld. then told me that was a good job an do it again. LOL

True that! haha

I did the BFH test on these brackets of course and they are good.

People really kinda underestimate the strength of a weld.

As long as there is penetration these should hold like 65 thousand pounds of tensile. That means that to pull the weld apart you would need to use 65,000 pounds of pull to get it apart. That's REALLY STRONG!

Even most really ugly welds will hold anything you need them to unless you are doing something that is structural in terms of architecture or contstruction oriented, like welding the buckets for CAT on their front loaders.

But on a bike? You'll NEVER apply anywhere near the force that would be needed to cause a weld to completely fail if it was done properly.

Now, if it were done IMPROPERLY and had little to no penetration, well then that's another story of course!

Oh, also, in terms of penetration you actually can tell without Xraying it. Xraying will show small imperfections like bubbles or fissures in the weld that you can't see because they are either IN the weld, or they are too small for your eye.

Two things to keep an eye on in terms of penetration are like I had mentioned, your gap. You can see if you are getting all the way through a gap really easily... just look on the other side.

The other thing is your HAZ, or Heat Affected Zone. You want it to be even on each side of the weld, and you learn after awhile how big of a HAZ you will have on the metal thickness you are working on and be able to gauge against that.

Personally I am picky, so before I do anything I take a scrap piece that is the thickness and material I am working on and I tune my machine for it. I run a bead along it and then flip it over. If you have no HAZ on the other side (6mm thick for example) then you need to use more heat.

When it's done right you will see a very even defined HAZ on the opposite side of the bead, but not a bunch of bubbled up distortion. You want to smelt the base metal and the filler metal together, but not too much. Too much heat changes the properties of the base metal around the weld in that HAZ and can cause weakness.

Once you get used to welding though and can gauge what kind of gap you need and what kind of HAZ you should have you can setup and tune properly to produce very sound welds in an almost second nature like fashion.

Holy crap you know your welding stuff!!!!!!! You must be some wise guy from some fancy college like Dunwoody or something.