- Posts: 1229
- Thank you received: 726
Very odd ground problem
- slmjim+Z1BEBE
- Topic Author
- Offline
- User
- Enjoy Life! IT HAS AN EXPIRATION DATE!
Less
More
06 Jun 2024 06:07 #900342
by slmjim+Z1BEBE
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
www.kawasaki-z-classik.com
An enthusiast's forum focused exclusively
on all things Z1, Z2 and KZ900.
Very odd ground problem was created by slmjim+Z1BEBE
Unrestored-original '74 Z1-A. Right turn signal spontaneously quit working. Only the front bulb energized. Rear bulb tested good. Left side works fine. Ground, right? Well, yeah, but not where we'd ever suspect.
The cause of this problem took an hour+ to find; longer than we'd care to admit. But' who'd-a-thunk it?
In the pic above, we see the suspect stem/signal assy. at the bottom with the hot wire exiting the hollow stud. Above that is a disassembled OEM stem of uncertain vintage to show how they're assembled.
One would believe a steel stud screwed deeply into the stem would create a sound path for ground continuity, right? Except when it doesn't...
The sleeve of the bulb socket is grounded to the turn signal body, which is (s'posed to be) grounded through the stem/hollow stud assy. to a black/yellow washer/pigtail at the chassis mount.. That pigtail plugs into a dual B/Y connector on the rear main harness. B/Y is ground throughout on Z1's.
Long story short, there was no continuity between the hollow stud (green arrow) and anywhere on the stem or turn signal body (red arrows). Had the meter set to 200 Ω scale. At first it was difficult to believe what the meter was telling us. Even tried a different meter. Same. In hindsight it might have been interesting to go to the 2 MΩ scale to determine if it was truly open & not just very high resistance, but that didn't occur to us.
Note the flat on the hollow stud in the bottom stem. The instant we moved the stud using a wrench, continuity returned. We tried to unscrew that stud but could only turn it a few degrees in either direction. Acted like it was staked but couldn't seen any staking. Didn't try too hard 'cause we didn't want to break anything. We would have liked to have gotten it out to see if there was corrosion inside the stem's threads. A squirt of WD-40, worked it back & forth a few times & we called it good.
There's no flat on the stud with the other stem, but it unscrewed by hand. Peering into the threaded hole of the other stem other we could see where the chrome plating ended 5mm or so into the hole, with what looks like bare metal (aluminum?) past that. Shouldn't matter anyway, 'cause chrome & aluminum are good conductors.
So the true cause remains a mystery. We don't like tech mysteries; they have a habit of coming back to haunt us. At least now we'll have the experience* to draw on quickly. Hope the description of uncommon ground problem helps someone in the future.
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
* ex·pe·ri·ence
/ikˈspirēəns/
practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
encounter or undergo (an event or occurrence).
And yaddayaddayadda... Please allow us to offer an additional definition of experience:
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
The cause of this problem took an hour+ to find; longer than we'd care to admit. But' who'd-a-thunk it?
In the pic above, we see the suspect stem/signal assy. at the bottom with the hot wire exiting the hollow stud. Above that is a disassembled OEM stem of uncertain vintage to show how they're assembled.
One would believe a steel stud screwed deeply into the stem would create a sound path for ground continuity, right? Except when it doesn't...
The sleeve of the bulb socket is grounded to the turn signal body, which is (s'posed to be) grounded through the stem/hollow stud assy. to a black/yellow washer/pigtail at the chassis mount.. That pigtail plugs into a dual B/Y connector on the rear main harness. B/Y is ground throughout on Z1's.
Long story short, there was no continuity between the hollow stud (green arrow) and anywhere on the stem or turn signal body (red arrows). Had the meter set to 200 Ω scale. At first it was difficult to believe what the meter was telling us. Even tried a different meter. Same. In hindsight it might have been interesting to go to the 2 MΩ scale to determine if it was truly open & not just very high resistance, but that didn't occur to us.
Note the flat on the hollow stud in the bottom stem. The instant we moved the stud using a wrench, continuity returned. We tried to unscrew that stud but could only turn it a few degrees in either direction. Acted like it was staked but couldn't seen any staking. Didn't try too hard 'cause we didn't want to break anything. We would have liked to have gotten it out to see if there was corrosion inside the stem's threads. A squirt of WD-40, worked it back & forth a few times & we called it good.
There's no flat on the stud with the other stem, but it unscrewed by hand. Peering into the threaded hole of the other stem other we could see where the chrome plating ended 5mm or so into the hole, with what looks like bare metal (aluminum?) past that. Shouldn't matter anyway, 'cause chrome & aluminum are good conductors.
So the true cause remains a mystery. We don't like tech mysteries; they have a habit of coming back to haunt us. At least now we'll have the experience* to draw on quickly. Hope the description of uncommon ground problem helps someone in the future.
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
* ex·pe·ri·ence
/ikˈspirēəns/
practical contact with and observation of facts or events.
encounter or undergo (an event or occurrence).
And yaddayaddayadda... Please allow us to offer an additional definition of experience:
Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted.
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
www.kawasaki-z-classik.com
An enthusiast's forum focused exclusively
on all things Z1, Z2 and KZ900.
The following user(s) said Thank You: JR, Wookie58
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Wookie58
- Offline
- Moderator
Less
More
- Posts: 4180
- Thank you received: 2388
06 Jun 2024 06:20 #900344
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Very odd ground problem
These are the joy's of "chassis grounding" on older vehicles. You can also test grounds with a voltmeter (tell me if I'm "teaching my granny to suck eggs") black lead to battery ground, red lead to the ground side of the bulb holder - anything more than 0.3v indicates a resistance in the ground line
The following user(s) said Thank You: slmjim+Z1BEBE
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- 1997dr650
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 22
- Thank you received: 7
06 Jun 2024 07:14 - 06 Jun 2024 07:18 #900348
by 1997dr650
Replied by 1997dr650 on topic Very odd ground problem
The ground circuit on older bikes seem to pop up as the as the neglected and weak point in the electrical system. On my 1980 kz440 k ran into an issue with my turn signals after swapping out the handlebars.... on inspection I found that they where switched on the ground side of circuit and the switch had no ground wire ... it grounded thru the handlebars, which ment that my steering stem bearings were part of the circuit which is probably one of the biggest no, no of bike wiring.
The image shows how I attached dedicated ground to left hand switch assembly
Also could not see a dedicated ground from engine, to frame , to wiring harness so I added one.
The image shows how I attached dedicated ground to left hand switch assembly
Also could not see a dedicated ground from engine, to frame , to wiring harness so I added one.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2024 07:18 by 1997dr650.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Wookie58
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.