Gotta have ABS

I've been riding a long time with no terrible collisions or spills, so I figure it's time I add some tech to my side of the equation.

I'm looking for a good road bike with bags and a wind screen and, of course, the ABS. So far, I've looked at the Z900 and the Yamaha Tracer.

The Yamaha is more polished with a much nicer traction control setup. I didn't ride either I just looked 'em over in the showroom and read the reviews.

Currently I'm comparing and FJR and a Concours. I rode the FJR last week. It's a good looking bike, way beyond the Kawi. Unfortunately, the suspension was WAY too stiff, front and back. This was the "A" model, no wonder they also offer the "ES" (Electronic Suspension) model. In addition, I was aware that I had to counteract the tendency for the bars to dive into the turn. I've ridden worse, but it was there.

I've not yet ridden the Concours, I'll look into a test ride this week. The Concours lists at $15.5K. This dealer has three, in a silver color, I'm not impressed, except for the price, $12K with no fees added.

The Yamahas are still getting full price ( $17K to $18K) for the 2019s.

Reading the reviews, the FJR does better with more nimble front end, better traction control and cruise control, which the Kawi lacks.
Any body have any saddle time on either of these bikes?
Bill

Sadly, I have no seat time in either, but but they have been discussed so much over at ZRXOA, that I am pretty sure I would buy the FJR. As much as I want to love the Concours, 14, it is a heavy bike, and tha valve adjustment routine is very involved, and very expensive if done at a shop. I put about 60,000 miles on a Concours 1000, and I think e FJR is in many ways a much improved version of that bike.

We'll be watching this thread with much interest.

We're on our second Honda ST1300 in 15 yrs. The current one, a 2009 ST1300A leftover purchased in 2011, has ABS. Our 2003 ST1300 had conventional brakes.

We looked at then-current FJ's and Concourse' when we decided on the ST. Insurance was much cheaper for the ST than either of the other bikes. The ST was discontinued in 2012, but was in production for ten yrs. with only minor changes. The knowledge base and aftermarket support is very deep and wide as a consequence. The forums retain far more expertise regarding maintenance & troubleshooting than most dealers. With the optional Hondaline tail trunk installed, a ST1300 is reported to have more luggage capacity than the newest GW's! It's as bulletproof a bike as can be expected, with many reaching well beyond 100K miles + with minimal drama. They're comfortable mile eaters that will willingly putter around at 45 mph. all day, but really hit their stride at 75 mph. and above.

The downside is weight, and they're top heavy, especially with a full tank. Add a passenger & load in the luggage, it becomes a real handful at parking lot speeds. Relatively-uncommon rear tire size that limits choices. Heat management is a problem for some riders.

Our ST1300 is really Z1BEBE's bike; I'm just the lowly chauffeur, tasked with spiriting M'Lady across the land & into adventure. I'm also human and, age is beginning to make itself known when in the saddle. I'm (we're) looking for something different in a two-up sport touring bike. Little lower seat height, lower CG, less wet weight.

The Moto Guzzi Norge, with a face only a mother could love would be at the top of our list if not for such limited dealer support; our closest Guzzi dealer is over 100 mi. away, and the Norge is not imported to the US for the last few years anyway. H-D lost our support forever when they killed Buell, have no sport touring platforms anyway & are way overpriced IMO. Ditto Indian. A GW won't fit in the garage space the ST comfortably occupies; they're too long.

So, we're interested in how Bill's choices play out, and seeing everyone's opinions. Lots to consider.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

The wanting to pull you harder into turns would be a deal breaker for me. I've usually only experienced that on messed up bikes that often had tires that were very low on pressure. It would make me feel like my new bike was one of them.

I rode a VF1000R back in the 80's that did that. That bike was not messed up, so I don't know if it was normal or not. Either way, I didn't like it.

I've only ridden the FJR1300, and only breifly, but it's awesome. I never trusted the Kawasaki being based on some 0 to 140mph in 10 seconds engine. I bought the old concours 1000 brand new back in 1990, and that experience was not pleasant. It was a roadrace engine in sport tour trim, and did not do anything worth crap for me.
As to ABS, I never wanted it, and have only had two motorcycles with it and my thoughts have gone even worse. Constantly ABS kicks in and eliminates brakes. I appreciate brakes and don't enjoy every bump having ABS kick in and you have brakes that could be improved on by dragging your feet on the road.
Others love it though. Fine. I have it and would be so happy if it was never thought of.

Funny how different people have different perceptions of things. Other than buying my "good money out the window" '77 KZ-1000 fix-it-up bike I wouldn't own a motorcycle without ABS and I have been riding since about 1970. In fact, I wouldn't own a bike without cornering ABS anymore. My real go fer rides motorcycle is a 2018 BMW GTL that optioned out with very impressive cornering ABS. It NEVER interrupts my braking procedures ever, unless I screw something up and I haven't yet knock on wood. Early versions of ABS systems were quite finicky and so was the 2nd gen H-D ABS system. All you had to do was put four fingers on the brake lever and it would engage ABS. Very touchy systems back in the day, but as Bosch and some others really got into the design application of ABS they sorted out the problems and today I feel you are at a serious handicap without ABS. You have to remember that on a motorcycle with a good ABS platform it will never engage itself as long as you don't exceed threshold braking. Once you do exceed that limit only then will ABS engage itself, otherwise it just sits in the background waiting for you to make a mistake. And that's the real beauty of ABS, its one and only job is to rectify your error in braking. Think of it this way, if you engage ABS on a continuing basis you probably would have been on your side sliding down the road were it not for your ABS system pulling your fat out of the fire. There are even a couple of motorcycle manufacturers that offer ABS systems that allow you do dial in how much ABS intervention you want such as Ducati and KTM. The reason they do this is more towards racing and off-road use. At one time BMW offered the ability of shutting off the ABS system on their GS series motorcycles, but I don't know if that is still offered. Certainly a trained and well experienced motorcycle rider who is on his/her game riding a non-ABS equipped can out stop a rider on an ABS equipped motorcycle, but the question has always been, will that rider be "on game" all the time? In reality through testing I learned the stopping distances between similar ABS equipped bikes versus non-ABS equipped bikes is usually only 4 or 5 feet. Not much if one looks at the big picture, but the real advantage is in knowing you won't go into a front or rear wheel lockup if that awe poop time happens because you weren't on top of your game or were caught by surprise. I'll stick with ABS equipped motorcycles thank you.
Rick H.

An alternative is to use tires that provide massive grip rather than tires that skid rather easily. I once had Michelin Macadams on my KZ650-C1, and in a situation where a truck ran a stop sign I hit the brakes very hard and the front tire skidded (dry pavement). I didn't crash, but that taught me that the tires were not as good as they should be. I switched to Pirelli Sport Demons and as a test I tried to make the front skid. No can do, at least not on dry pavement. Ed

Peoples reactions during emergency situations vary wildly. something like 1/3 of riders will not brake at all in emergency situations. 1/3 will brake improperly, and 1/3 will brake properly, with a very small percentage of that 1/3 braking to the motorcycles full potential. ABS is a powerful equalizer in this regard.

like Rick said, motorcycle ABS has come a long way and will only get better. Its required to be included on new motorcycles in the EU since 2016 and many other countries already. its only a matter of time at this point that ABS becomes mandatory in the US, probably along with stability control.

The only real world advice I can offer is; if your bike has ABS, purposely activate it somehow in as safe a place & manner as possible. I found a parking lot that had a sandy washout on the pavement. The noise & cyclical, tactile feedback through the front brake lever when ABS activated was quite startling the first time. I know what to expect now if ABS engages.

Good Ridin'
slmjim

In 2006 I was all ready to buy a ZZR600 Kaw........and then on a website that talked about em there was a guy that did a endo over the handlebars during a panic stop.

Over the years I've had 3 situations were I hit the front break so hard that would a happened to me. One time I was gripping it so hard I tore a couple layers of skin on the top of my hand. That's when I decided to throw the money into mine as I knew in a total panic stop I'd be in trouble.

Wish my 2007 Yamaha R6 had come with ABS.
I had very sticky rubber on it. That wasn't much help.
The back of that Ford F-150 was very hard.
The bike lived, but despite my best efforts I still slid into it.
I almost made it. I was able to tape and bungie cord the plastic back together and got one light working. It was dark by the time I got going again.
Almost 2K in plastic and parts to repair it.
I'll take ABS whenever it's available.

My new bike has abs (17 versys 300) and I've engaged the rear abs a few times, but never the front. I have tried on dry pavement, but have not yet on wet or sand/gravel. Its a small bike so single disc, but still has some serious stopping power. More than I'd ever have felt comfortable with using without testing. Still on original tires (80/20 on vs. offroad)