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Recent diesel oil formulas MAY be causing wet clutch problems
- slmjim+Z1BEBE
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This is simply meant to be a PSA for those of us who use diesel oil in bikes because of their purported JASO MA rating. We'd feel like we were doing a disservice to the KZR community if we didn't share.
We were made aware of a possibly developing issue with wet clutches when using the most recent formulations of diesel oil that had performed well with wet clutches in earlier formula iterations. This had slipped under our radar until a Rider on another forum linked to it on the st-owners.com forum.
Many ST1100 / ST1300 Riders cover serious miles every year, akin to Gold Wing Riders. It's not unusual to see ST1300's with over 100K miles on them. Oil threads are an ongoing 'thing' at the st-owners forum.
We, personally, have not had any problems using Rotella 15w-40 dino oil in our ST1300A, or one of our '74 Z1's. But, we bought the 15w-40 gallons we have on the shelf a few years ago on Black Friday sales, and the formulas & API ratings have changed since then. We only used the full synthetic 5w-40 once in our ST1300A, because slmjim didn't like the way the clutch & tranny felt.
The short version:
Motor oil producers modify formulas routinely to account for changes in motor design & materials and, changes in emissions laws. There's chatter that some recent formulations of Shell Rotella 5w-40 full synthetic in particular may be causing wet clutches to fail in ST1300's. The linked threads are the sum total of what we've read so far. Conflicting info, some facts, & many opinions to wade through. Draw your own conclusions:
www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/new-tre...-diesel-oils.184954/
www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/shell-t...e-rotella-t6.184924/
www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/rotella-t6.183960/
We've not researched beyond what is contained in the linked threads above 'cause we value our time & sanity. We'll just offer our opinions:
Oil is literally the lifeblood of an ICE. Once our stock of old-formula dino15w-40 Rotella diesel oil is used, we'll bite the bullet & only use motorcycle-specific dino (in Z1's) and full syn (in our CB750 Nighthawks & ST1300A) oils that have the JASO MA symbol & JASO certificate number on the label.
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
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- Nessism
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I just read two long threads on Bob Is The Oil Guy about Rotella. One thing that came across is that in order to be certified as JASO MA/MA 2, the oil must also meet one of the current API oil specs. Thing is, though, API is for gasoline engines. Rotella and similar oils are diesel engine oils, thus they cannot be certified. Shell tests Rotella to meet the elements of MA/MA 2, though, as related to wet clutch performance. It's right there on the bottle. It's also in the .pdf for the various Rotella oils. I don't think there is anything to be worried about...
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- Cra-z1
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- hardrockminer
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I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.
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- slmjim+Z1BEBE
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JASO certification is indicated by the JASO shield & certificate # on the label of oil that has been certified. Oil that is claimed to meet JASO spec simply has that claim appear in text sans JASO shield & cert. #.
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/e-ok.htm
lubricants.repsol.com/en/news/como-saber...a-norma-jaso-repsol/
Certified vs claimed. We pay our money & we take our chances.
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
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- Nessism
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Here is the list of fully certified oils. Note: Look for MA and MA2 if you are worried about your wet clutch. Oils certified MB are NOT for wet clutch bikes.
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf
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- Wookie58
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- Nessism
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Gotta love an "oil thread"
I LOVE oil threads!
I've been on BITOG for years, but recently, I've been frequenting more often. Those guys are the closest thing you will find to science over opinion, but there are still a LOT of opinions that affect postings.
One of the more opinionated topics is whether 0W-20 car oil is preferable over 5W-30. I love those topics!
Motorcycle oil threads are far more calm. There is a long one over Rotella T6, though. slmjim & Z1BEBE would love that one! I've read a fair number of different oil analysis threads on Rotella, and I can't see anything in the current formula that would hurt a clutch. If anything, there was more moly before, and that can hurt the clutch (if there is too much).
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- slmjim+Z1BEBE
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Beat us to it on the JASO list link.
Gotta love an "oil thread"
I LOVE oil threads!
I've been on BITOG for years, but recently, I've been frequenting more often. Those guys are the closest thing you will find to science over opinion, but there are still a LOT of opinions that affect postings.
One of the more opinionated topics is whether 0W-20 car oil is preferable over 5W-30. I love those topics!
Motorcycle oil threads are far more calm. There is a long one over Rotella T6, though. slmjim & Z1BEBE would love that one! I've read a fair number of different oil analysis threads on Rotella, and I can't see anything in the current formula that would hurt a clutch. If anything, there was more moly before, and that can hurt the clutch (if there is too much).
We won't use Rotella T6 5w-40 in a bike again. Clutch & tranny feel grew noticeably worse over the course of 3,000 miles in our ST1300A. Changed it early because of that, before we were even aware of the issues documented elsewhere developing. We've had zero problems with Rotells 15w-40 dino.
It was the pic of the ST1300 wet clutch plates that trusted forum user & ST1300 guru 'IGOFAR' posted in the third(?) linked thread in the OP that gave us pause, and the only reason we started this thread.
We pays our money & we takes our chances...
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
www.kawasaki-z-classik.com
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on all things Z1, Z2 and KZ900.
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- Nessism
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Did the guy on the forum collect an oil sample and send it in to Blackstone for analysis? I certainly hope so. Without science behind the investigation, all we have is supposition and opinions.
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- slmjim+Z1BEBE
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Will ask.
Did the guy on the forum collect an oil sample and send it in to Blackstone for analysis?
Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE
A biker looks at your engine and chrome.
A Rider looks at your odometer and tags.
1973 ('72 builds) Z1 x2
1974 Z1-A x2
1975 Z1-B x2
1993 CB 750 Nighthawk x2
2009 ST1300A
www.kawasaki-z-classik.com
An enthusiast's forum focused exclusively
on all things Z1, Z2 and KZ900.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.