- Posts: 591
- Thank you received: 105
GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
- Bozo
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Sustaining Member
- Ride it like u stole it
Less
More
20 Nov 2023 02:22 #891856
by Bozo
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
GPZ1100 neutral selection problem was created by Bozo
Hi, I have a GPZ1100 1983 Unitrack motor with a problem. The engine was refurbished but because the gears looked good I neglected to check if all was ok.
My problem is trying to get neutral while the engine is running, it keeps going from first to second even with engine running at a stand still. The only way I can get it into neutral is with the engine off, but even then it searches between neutral & second.
I know these gearboxes have a positive neutral but mine doesn't appear to be working,
my questions are
My problem is trying to get neutral while the engine is running, it keeps going from first to second even with engine running at a stand still. The only way I can get it into neutral is with the engine off, but even then it searches between neutral & second.
I know these gearboxes have a positive neutral but mine doesn't appear to be working,
my questions are
- why would anyone disable it OR is it possible that this mechanism is jammed???.
- If the positive neutral was disabled why am I finding it hard to select neutral with the engine running (maybe clutch is dragging, although it doesn't feel like it)
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- martin_csr
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 8019
- Thank you received: 1645
20 Nov 2023 05:51 - 20 Nov 2023 05:53 #891860
by martin_csr
Replied by martin_csr on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
I would start by looking into the neutral positioning lever and spring.
See the external shift mechanism section in the 81-83 KZ1000/1100 base manual starting on pg 6-29.
If you remove the cover and start poking around, there's a warning note that says:
Do not pull the shift rod out more than 40mm. so don't do that. ha ha.
#13236 & #92081A
www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motor...ear-change-mechanism
See the external shift mechanism section in the 81-83 KZ1000/1100 base manual starting on pg 6-29.
If you remove the cover and start poking around, there's a warning note that says:
Do not pull the shift rod out more than 40mm. so don't do that. ha ha.
#13236 & #92081A
www.partzilla.com/catalog/kawasaki/motor...ear-change-mechanism
Last edit: 20 Nov 2023 05:53 by martin_csr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Wookie58
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- zed1015
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 3049
- Thank you received: 1583
20 Nov 2023 09:54 - 20 Nov 2023 09:59 #891874
by zed1015
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Replied by zed1015 on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
The neutral lockout is the same on all Z1 through to GPZ1100.
The 3 ball bearings are centrifugally activated with them being thrown out of engagement when the output shaft ( and rear wheel) is spinning which then allows 2nd and above to be selected.
The only way 2nd and above can be selected is with the output shaft spinning , when the bearings have been removed or they are stuck in their outermost position.
It's a common mod to remove the bearings to allow all gears to be selected at standstill especially for racing etc where a 2nd or 3rd gear bump start may be needed etc when there is no starter motor fitted or kickstart fitted..
Neutral is selected on mid travel of a normal shift and takes very little movement of the gear lever so is easily overshot if the balls have been removed and bike is stationary.
On my latest build i have myself removed the balls to allow for 2nd gear bump starts etc in the event of starter motor failure.
The 3 ball bearings are centrifugally activated with them being thrown out of engagement when the output shaft ( and rear wheel) is spinning which then allows 2nd and above to be selected.
The only way 2nd and above can be selected is with the output shaft spinning , when the bearings have been removed or they are stuck in their outermost position.
It's a common mod to remove the bearings to allow all gears to be selected at standstill especially for racing etc where a 2nd or 3rd gear bump start may be needed etc when there is no starter motor fitted or kickstart fitted..
Neutral is selected on mid travel of a normal shift and takes very little movement of the gear lever so is easily overshot if the balls have been removed and bike is stationary.
On my latest build i have myself removed the balls to allow for 2nd gear bump starts etc in the event of starter motor failure.
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Last edit: 20 Nov 2023 09:59 by zed1015.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Bozo
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Sustaining Member
- Ride it like u stole it
Less
More
- Posts: 591
- Thank you received: 105
20 Nov 2023 15:24 #891885
by Bozo
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Replied by Bozo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Thankyou for your reply, I have a new neutral locator and it goes into the indent as the drum rotates
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Bozo
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Sustaining Member
- Ride it like u stole it
Less
More
- Posts: 591
- Thank you received: 105
20 Nov 2023 15:29 - 20 Nov 2023 15:30 #891886
by Bozo
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Replied by Bozo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Zed1015 is going into neutral once the bearings are removed hard with engine running and on idle, if not I might need to look at my clutch as it might be dragging? I really do not want to remove/ disassemble the motor to fit the neutral lock bearings. You mentioned that the bearings might be stuck, is that possible? if so is there a away to loosen them?
The gears/ dogs look good and the shafts/ gears didn't look like someone took them apart.
Thankyou for your input
The gears/ dogs look good and the shafts/ gears didn't look like someone took them apart.
Thankyou for your input
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Last edit: 20 Nov 2023 15:30 by Bozo.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- zed1015
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 3049
- Thank you received: 1583
21 Nov 2023 01:35 #891902
by zed1015
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Replied by zed1015 on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
The balls can only stick in the outer position if the slots they run in are gummed up with old oil residue and sludge.
It isn't a common problem but not unknown.
Getting in to neutral needs very little rotation of the drum and is easily over shot into 2nd if the balls are removed.
A dragging clutch will make it harder to make the sensitive shift into neutral.
It isn't a common problem but not unknown.
Getting in to neutral needs very little rotation of the drum and is easily over shot into 2nd if the balls are removed.
A dragging clutch will make it harder to make the sensitive shift into neutral.
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Bozo
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Sustaining Member
- Ride it like u stole it
Less
More
- Posts: 591
- Thank you received: 105
21 Nov 2023 02:46 #891904
by Bozo
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Replied by Bozo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Again thankyou, after a lot of thought I'm certain the balls have been removed (gears are definately not gummed up). I won't pull the motor out to fix this and put up with a vague neutral. As Martin stated I'll recheck the neutral selection lever just to make sure all is ok while I have the side-cover off.
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- daveo
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Posts: 2812
- Thank you received: 690
22 Nov 2023 10:53 - 24 Nov 2023 08:26 #891956
by daveo
Thanks for posting the image. I noticed what appears to be an o-ring just inside the clutch push-rod opening, which led me to a cmsnl KZ1100 transmission part detail:
images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/kawasaki...ar093162105_8690.gif
Huh, there it is 670B1508
In 2015 I replaced the broken push rod with an APE hardened steel version (NLA) without the o-ring.
1982 KZ1100-A2
Replied by daveo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Thankyou for your reply, I have a new neutral locator and it goes into the indent as the drum rotates
Thanks for posting the image. I noticed what appears to be an o-ring just inside the clutch push-rod opening, which led me to a cmsnl KZ1100 transmission part detail:
images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/kawasaki...ar093162105_8690.gif
Huh, there it is 670B1508
In 2015 I replaced the broken push rod with an APE hardened steel version (NLA) without the o-ring.
1982 KZ1100-A2
Last edit: 24 Nov 2023 08:26 by daveo.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Bozo
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Sustaining Member
- Ride it like u stole it
Less
More
- Posts: 591
- Thank you received: 105
24 Nov 2023 15:14 #892017
by Bozo
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Replied by Bozo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Daveo, glad it helped, shame about my positive neutral bearings not fitted by previous owner. Apart from that my engine is 100%
First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- daveo
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Posts: 2812
- Thank you received: 690
03 Dec 2023 09:26 #892314
by daveo
Probably the reason why this engine won't shift above neutral:
.
1982 KZ1100-A2
Replied by daveo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
The balls can only stick in the outer position if the slots they run in are gummed up with old oil residue and sludge.
It isn't a common problem but not unknown.
Getting in to neutral needs very little rotation of the drum and is easily over shot into 2nd if the balls are removed.
A dragging clutch will make it harder to make the sensitive shift into neutral.
Probably the reason why this engine won't shift above neutral:
.
1982 KZ1100-A2
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- daveo
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Posts: 2812
- Thank you received: 690
03 Dec 2023 22:04 - 03 Dec 2023 22:18 #892329
by daveo
1982 KZ1100-A2
Replied by daveo on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
Everything behind the front bevel gear case looks in order, except that pesky o-ring is missing from this motor too...
I suppose the output shaft has to be disassembled to free up those three little balls, unless there's a chance of accessing and freeing them up with the oil pan removed. Can't imagine they're missing in this case since the engine has not been opened before.
The the clutch components check out, but several fibers were stuck to adjacent steels by dried oil, and had to be pried apart.
The crankshaft seems in good shape, though the rod movement feels restricted somewhat by thick old oil that nevertheless is clean.
I suppose the output shaft has to be disassembled to free up those three little balls, unless there's a chance of accessing and freeing them up with the oil pan removed. Can't imagine they're missing in this case since the engine has not been opened before.
The the clutch components check out, but several fibers were stuck to adjacent steels by dried oil, and had to be pried apart.
The crankshaft seems in good shape, though the rod movement feels restricted somewhat by thick old oil that nevertheless is clean.
1982 KZ1100-A2
Last edit: 03 Dec 2023 22:18 by daveo.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- zed1015
- Offline
- User
Less
More
- Posts: 3049
- Thank you received: 1583
04 Dec 2023 01:23 #892330
by zed1015
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
Replied by zed1015 on topic GPZ1100 neutral selection problem
There's nothing wrong with the gearbox or lockout bearings if you can only get 1st and neutral at standstill.Everything behind the front bevel gear case looks in order, except that pesky o-ring is missing from this motor too...
I suppose the output shaft has to be disassembled to free up those three little balls, unless there's a chance of accessing and freeing them up with the oil pan removed. Can't imagine they're missing in this case since the engine has not been opened before.
The the clutch components check out, but several fibers were stuck to adjacent steels by dried oil, and had to be pried apart.
The crankshaft seems in good shape, though the rod movement feels restricted somewhat by thick old oil that nevertheless is clean
AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-
The following user(s) said Thank You: daveo
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.