Tank....

I think I've looked at reducing the weight of the Z1 before on this forum (Archives). The conclusion was, we will never achieve a big reduction in weight because of that (beautiful) engine!
RegardZ

John, who is your supplier?.. i have considered making some carbon bits for my project.

About the tank shop, did you notice that they make some sweet cafe seats too (both alu and fibreglass), they´re in the menu on the left:

I could be wrong on this, but here it is anyway.
All this is taken from Dunstall motorcycle information.

The fiberglass tanks were made illegal because in an accident the fiberglass would easily break and become a big ball of fire between your legs(ouch!!) They didnt have the give that metal tanks have and would rupture easier than a steel tank.

In the mid 70's Dunstall did away with fiberglass tanks and just made tank covers to replicate the Dunstall look over your factory tank.

Omars sells the fiberglass street tracker tanks and they have a legal blurb with them (not legal for street use, etc).
It doesnt matter to me as I have made a few 'glass tanks and some of the glass tanks just look too cool and just have to be used.
Daniel

KzJim wrote:

John, who is your supplier?.. i have considered making some carbon bits for my project.

What!? Get out of here! I am not telling you anyth...

hee hee j/k


Just get the stuff through fibreglast.com

It's a tiny bit cheaper there, but once you pay shipping, it all evens out.


Good luck molding

Daniel, this was the law in the UK, but it changed some time in the late 80's, or possibly early 90's, to allow non-metal tanks to be used again. All the international (non-UK specific) enduro machines came with plastic or fibre tanks and had to be changed to aluminum to be street legal. Some of these replacement tanks developed stress fractures and leaks. Hopefully there are better glass fiber and aluminum products being used these days.


dgfischer wrote:

I could be wrong on this, but here it is anyway.
All this is taken from Dunstall motorcycle information.

The fiberglass tanks were made illegal because in an accident the fiberglass would easily break and become a big ball of fire between your legs(ouch!!) They didnt have the give that metal tanks have and would rupture easier than a steel tank.

In the mid 70's Dunstall did away with fiberglass tanks and just made tank covers to replicate the Dunstall look over your factory tank.

Omars sells the fiberglass street tracker tanks and they have a legal blurb with them (not legal for street use, etc).
It doesnt matter to me as I have made a few 'glass tanks and some of the glass tanks just look too cool and just have to be used.
Daniel

Post edited by: jenshhj, at: 2005/12/02 11:38

John68 wrote:

How are you getting the prices for the carbon fiber tank you are talking about John as far as an estimate?

The prices are based on materials, and custom labor prices.

I can make an entire set of motorcycle tins from carbon fiber. Sidecovers, tailpieces, gas tanks, and fenders can be made the same way I'd make a custom carbon fiber car hood. Making carbon fiber pieces are like "advanced fiberglass" molding. It's just a matter of time to make a plug, mold the plug, mold the pieces and put them together. If you don't make 50-100 of the same gas tank, then it's going to be more expensive. I do cut a huge price break for anyone on this forum. I am not doing bikes for maximum profit. I do these just to make a fellow KZ rider a little happier as he rides down the freeway. I have seen people quote prices between $600-900 for doing all the body pieces for a single motorcycle. I generally stay within $250-500(and if I am asking for $500, chances are it was in very bad shape, and any other shop would charge $900-1200).

Just thought I would try to help out as much as possible. I don't mind giving away anything labeled as a "trade secret" or any other information that someone is asking for. Just the same, I don't mind giving away my time away from the computer, in the shop, to help out.

btw, if anyone is interested in making their own carbon fiber pieces, I'll give the material supplier I use.

I'm fully aware of how to work with carbon fiber. Do you do hand layup or vacuum bag? Judging by your response and the process you described it sounds like you do hand layup. I prefer vacuum bagging things because they come out sooooo much nicer and more even, and it's easier to get a good contour out of the compound curves things can have.

As for molds, what do you use for them as far as material goes?

I was just curious what you base your pricing on specifically...

TWT.. i agree... bagging is much easier... you can manipulate the resin under vacume better.. and it wonf lift in tight corners... any news on the clutch cover

KzJim wrote:

TWT.. i agree... bagging is much easier... you can manipulate the resin under vacume better.. and it wonf lift in tight corners... any news on the clutch cover

Last day in was Wed, and we didn't get into the shop at all. Short day.

I go back in Monday, should be able to get something done then I would guess. At the very least I'd like to get it marked up and cut so I can just bring it home and finish it with the dremel.

twowheeledterror,
I do hand lay up everything I do. That adds $ to the labor cost(with fiberglass, vs. a chopper gun) I do not vacuum bag anything though, as I have never had any pieces requiring extremely tight critical tolerances. If it was airplane parts that had to meet specific weight and rigidity standards, then yeah, I'd vacuum bag it.

Any molds I make are from the same old fiberglass mat that you buy on the big cheap rolls. Since I toss out 99.9% of the plugs and molds I make, I don't use anything expensive to mold with. I don't have a lot of spare room to save the molds I make, and I hardly think I will every use most of them again. (Ex. 1975 Ford 7000 rowcrop tractor dash panel... when will I need that again?)

The most expensive thing I use to mold would be the PPG NCP-271 primer/surfacer I use in the mold and plug. I just use the urethane primer to coat the plug, then wetsand the primer down to 3500 and buff it out, followed by wax/PVA... same thing with the molds.
the biggest "sucky part" about molding most motorcycle gas tanks is the sides of the mold (if you try doing it in just 2 pieces) are negative draught. the bottom edge of the gas tank is narrower than the center. Therefore, the top of the gas tank has to be molded in a clamshell or 2 part mold, and the bottom of the tank is molded in a 1 piece mold, and then the top of the tank and the bottom are bonded. then the parting line on the top of the tank has to be sanded down, and all the fittings have to be leakproof.

do you want a direct breakdown of material and labor costs for the average tank? Are you asking because you think the price is too high? I'm just curious as to why you asked.

John68 wrote:

twowheeledterror,
I do hand lay up everything I do. That adds $ to the labor cost(with fiberglass, vs. a chopper gun) I do not vacuum bag anything though, as I have never had any pieces requiring extremely tight critical tolerances. If it was airplane parts that had to meet specific weight and rigidity standards, then yeah, I'd vacuum bag it.

Any molds I make are from the same old fiberglass mat that you buy on the big cheap rolls. Since I toss out 99.9% of the plugs and molds I make, I don't use anything expensive to mold with. I don't have a lot of spare room to save the molds I make, and I hardly think I will every use most of them again. (Ex. 1975 Ford 7000 rowcrop tractor dash panel... when will I need that again?)

The most expensive thing I use to mold would be the PPG NCP-271 primer/surfacer I use in the mold and plug. I just use the urethane primer to coat the plug, then wetsand the primer down to 3500 and buff it out, followed by wax/PVA... same thing with the molds.
the biggest "sucky part" about molding most motorcycle gas tanks is the sides of the mold (if you try doing it in just 2 pieces) are negative draught. the bottom edge of the gas tank is narrower than the center. Therefore, the top of the gas tank has to be molded in a clamshell or 2 part mold, and the bottom of the tank is molded in a 1 piece mold, and then the top of the tank and the bottom are bonded. then the parting line on the top of the tank has to be sanded down, and all the fittings have to be leakproof.

do you want a direct breakdown of material and labor costs for the average tank? Are you asking because you think the price is too high? I'm just curious as to why you asked.

Yeah, hand layup works, but when you get into doing some more compund curvatures it's a significantly less precise, which is why I mentioned vacuum bagging.

No, I don't need a breakdown and the price is fine. Price is relative to whatever people will pay, and if they pay that price, then thats what it shoud be

I was just curious of the process and how you get the price and stuff. Thanks for the response!