Gas tank Cleaning?

Found Red Devil Lye at the local ACE Hardware, back in the plumbing section. guess i'll have to let the fuel level run out so I can de-rust the tank this next weekend.

Keep some vinegar around just in case... I suppose beer will work in a pinch, since beer is relatively acidic (~4.0 pH), but a gallon of everyday white vineger is like $1.30 at the local grocer. Let us know how the tank comes out!

I won't comment on how to remove Kreem with Acetone or MEK, never did it. But why does someone want to use something so dangerous as lye to remove rust?

We had quite a few posts in the old forum and archives that speak about using a mild 25% phosphoric acid solution, commonly called "Tile and Grout Cleaner", or "Milkstone Remover", or "Naval Jelly". Cheap, easy, and certainly not as dangerous. Get it at Home Depot, hardware stores, etc. A quart container of acid solution, a small length of chain or a handful of nuts and bolts are all you need. It will get rid of the rust, and leave a protective coat of phosphorous to prevent future rust.

And then there is always Electrolysis, covered here.

kzrider.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=13422

Probably the safest way to de-rust a tank, to your person and the environment.

The problem is that something acidic will etch metal. A strong base won't.

Apparently you can even set up a home electrolysis system to remove rust from metal using lye, a stainless steel or iron electrode, water, and a plastic bucket. See this link for info; it's a write-up of some comments from a mailing list devoted to clock maintenance.

I'd imagine that clocks and watches could be very sensitive to changes in the weight or strength of internal parts. Apparently this technique doesn't produce noxious fumes, and you cannot "overclean" the part.

I'm not sure about aluminum reactivity with a base, but if you read the fine print on the rust/corrosion removal products at your friendly local auto parts, they all seem to be acid-based, and all contain warnings about use with aluminum.

GargantuChet wrote:

The problem is that something acidic will etch metal. A strong base won't.

Apparently you can even set up a home electrolysis system to remove rust from metal using lye, a stainless steel or iron electrode, water, and a plastic bucket.

If you're talking about Phosphoric acid, it mainly just reacts to the rust, it leaves the metal alone, at least in the weak 25% solutions needed here. It shouldn't do anything to the good metal in the time it takes to clean a tank. When it reacts it leaves behind a thin phosphorous coating on the clean metal left behind, which prevents further rust from happening. I used this method on my rusty tank and it looks brand new inside. Stronger acids, like muriatic, will damage the metal if left in contact long enough. They can be used to clean gas tanks but do it quick and don't let it sit around in the tank.

And if you are going the home electrolysis route, you still don't need to use lye either. That lye just scares me for some reason. Just some regular Washing Soda mixed in water, a piece of rebar, and a car battery charger. There are a ton of websites about this subject.

Post edited by: OKC_Kent, at: 2005/10/25 15:47

Post edited by: OKC_Kent, at: 2005/10/25 16:25

OKC_Kent wrote:

And if you are going the home electrolysis route, you still don't need to use lye either. That lye just scares me for some reason. Just some regular Washing Soda mixed in water, a piece of rebar, and a car battery charger. There are a ton of websites about this subject.

Washing Soda... That's interesting. Washing Soda is usually 95% or 100% pure Lye.
I don't think you should be afraid of Lye, I mean, if you saw that episode of CSI where they burned the guy's face off, well, that was a bit of an exagerration. Maybe if you left the lye solution on yoru skin for 20-30 minutes, you'd get similar results... but basically, if you've ever used Castrol SuperClean, mixed concrete, or got soap in your eyes, then you have already been into serious contact with lye. SuperClean contains pure lye. portland concrete has pure lye powder in it (trust me I have been thinking about extracting it myself), and of course, soap, including shampoos is made with a combination of restaurant grease, dead animal guts and bones and skulls and... (drum roll) lye.



So, don't be afraid. Lye is bad if you gargle with it, but if you treat it in the same manner as you do acids, then you are good to go. also, the processes I use are a weak dilution of the concentrate. basically, 1 tablespoon of powder, per gallon of water.

Phosporic acid is good for cleaning carbs, and cleaning non-polished aluminum wheels, but, if you want to clean something steel, then use lye.
Trust us here, after all, we do come from the steel city. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

as soon as I find lye (am having trouble buying it because of drug dealers and meth labs) I am gonna do a write up on it with some pictures.

Didnt Granny make soap outta lye....in a big tub set to boilin' out by the cement pond???? :lol: :woohoo:

Hey how about that? I didn't know Washing Soda was lye. I should have checked into that further. Thanks.

Is the phosphoric acid able to clean the carbs like Berrymans carb cleaner?

There actually is a very specific formula for cleaning aluminum. pure phosphoric acid turns the aluminum blue or dark, like it does to rust. (this is another reason I like pure lye for rust. lye takes away the rust, instead of turning the rust black, so you get shiney metal, instead of black rust.) If you have it mixed in proportion, it doesn't discolor the aluminum, and instead, it brightens it to a super shiney gloss. Infact, if you remember those cheap-o 5 star "mag" wheels from the 1970's, they got crappy looking fast, and you constantly had to polish them. with a little bit of "brightening solution" in a spray bottle, you could make them look like chrome, and fast!

check this out...
www.cobweb.net/~mvp/mustangcarlisle1.jpg

that is actually a picture of my car, with my air shocks and my retro 1970's mag wheels, and my wide white lettered tires... hee hee
yeah, I am a former mullet.

the wheels were done with phosphoric and then finished with talc powder and paste carnuba.

with cleaning carbs, I suggest dipping for just a few minutes, pull out, scrub with stainless steel then dip. I wouldn't leave them soak for more than a few minutes. Of course, I am also a big propponent of zincating aluminum,which keeps them from turning colors. I hate dull aluminum. when aluminum is first cast, it looks just like chrome, but over time, oxidation turns it dark, blueish, and then finally white and "fuzzy" zincating aluminum puts a very thin zinc plating layer on the aluminum and keeps it as bright as the day it was cast.

just something to think about. I don't have th eformula for the phosphoric cocktail, but I'll post it tomorrow. I should just start a whole new post with all my favorite recipes.

Post edited by: john68, at: 2005/10/25 22:00

OKC_Kent wrote:

And then there is always Electrolysis, covered here.

kzrider.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=13422

Probably the safest way to de-rust a tank, to your person and the environment.

just did this today and didnt expect it to work very well. Couldnt believe it after I rinsed, worked great and it was pretty cool watching the rust bubble up in the tank!

Post edited by: zippoman, at: 2005/10/29 18:46

RetroRiceRocketRider wrote:

I'm all for doing my own repairs, etc. when it comes to my vehicles, but dealing with hazardous chemicals (barring used oil, carb cleaner and the like) is something I try to avoid if possible.

One thing you might want to consider, is where to dispose of the used chemicals when you're done with them (they'd make a great weed killer for a garden/flowerbed, but that's kind of frowned upon by the E.P.A. :whistle: ).

If you plan on painting the tank anyway, I'd suggest checking with a radiator repair shop near you to see if they'd be willing to do it.
I had the tank for my ZN thoroughly cleaned out and lined by a radiator repair shop near me for $45.
Yes, it stripped almost all of the rattle-can paint job the PO had applied. But I had planned on having it and the rest of the bodywork repainted anyway.

OK, reviving an old thread here. I want to strip out the old kreem liner in my tank and plan to repaint anyway, so this radiator strip and re-line sounds good. Are they able to line only the inside of the tank? A friend of mine had a metal snowmobile tanks done a while back and the entire tank had to be done in a real rough looking finish. Since it's been long enough now, how did the radiator lining hold up?

Also, has anyone actually used MEK successfuly to remove the kreem?

Thanks!