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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 07:44 #841340

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Where do you get HCL? Is pool Muriatic acid from hardware store good enough?

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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 08:53 #841347

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Where do you get HCL? Is pool Muriatic acid from hardware store good enough?


Muriatic acid = HCl

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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 08:57 #841349

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Ok so let’s look at it from a scientific perspective.


Lots of great info here! Fantastic.

Personally, I use regular water for all but the last dip. Even though distilled water is cheap enough I always seem to run out and I'm too lazy to go to the store all the time.

Regarding the chromate dip time, I find that the color (yellow anyway) gets too deep unless the dip time is quite short (20 seconds or thereabouts gives the right color when using Caswell's chemicals.) When using the Blue (clear) chromate it dulls out the finish if you leave it in too long so I sometimes skip this step.
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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 08:59 #841350

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Where do you get HCL? Is pool Muriatic acid from hardware store good enough?


Muriatic acid = HCl


Yeah. But look at what HD sells. They say it's 25-35% with exact percentage being "trade secret". There is other "Green" kind - which is not clear what it is and if it's good for our use. Also, this is from internet: "Muriatic acid is a form of hydrochloric acid, which has a pH of about 1 to 2. The only differences between hydrochloric acid and muriatic acid are purity—muriatic acid is diluted to somewhere between 14.5 and 29 percent, and often contains impurities like iron"

I am not chemist so I don't know if pH difference or % make any difference for us. Last time I used/tried muriatic acid from store it did work on rust removal. Just trying to get as much details as possible at this point.

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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 09:01 #841351

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Ok so let’s look at it from a scientific perspective.
Regarding the chromate dip time, I find that the color (yellow anyway) gets too deep unless the dip time is quite short (20 seconds or thereabouts gives the right color when using Caswell's chemicals.) When using the Blue (clear) chromate it dulls out the finish if you leave it in too long so I sometimes skip this step.


From what I researched (youtube videos mostly) - yellow is basically "what you want". Can be from 10 seconds to a minute depending how yellow you want it to be. The guy was dipping for 10 seconds and then checking if he likes it.

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Last edit: by katit.

Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 15:41 #841380

  • Kaylinator
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Lots of good info so far.

Still curious on the cost comparison. It seems a pretty decent setup can be had for around $300. How does this compare to most in having parts done by a plating shop? Not looking to have engine covers or anything like that plated, just nuts, bolts, axle shafts, chain tensioners, etc.

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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 16:15 #841388

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I had almost exactly the item you mentioned done for less than $200. That includes shipping and Vapor blast.

1976 KZ 900 A4 kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/613548-1976-kz-900-a4
1976 KZ 900 B1 LTD
1978 KZ 1000 B2 LTD
Kowledge Speaks, But Wisdom Listens.
Jimi Hendrix.
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Plating at home 08 Jan 2021 17:31 #841392

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Where do you get HCL? Is pool Muriatic acid from hardware store good enough?


Muriatic acid = HCl


Yeah. But look at what HD sells. They say it's 25-35% with exact percentage being "trade secret". There is other "Green" kind - which is not clear what it is and if it's good for our use. Also, this is from internet: "Muriatic acid is a form of hydrochloric acid, which has a pH of about 1 to 2. The only differences between hydrochloric acid and muriatic acid are purity—muriatic acid is diluted to somewhere between 14.5 and 29 percent, and often contains impurities like iron"

I am not chemist so I don't know if pH difference or % make any difference for us. Last time I used/tried muriatic acid from store it did work on rust removal. Just trying to get as much details as possible at this point.


I bought muriatic acid from the hardware store a good while back and cut it about 5:1 water and it removes zinc plating pronto.

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Plating at home 12 Jan 2021 12:04 #841583

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I didn’t know you guys wanted to fall down the chemistry rabbit hole, so let’s take it a step further.

Acids
The strength of an acid is measured in acid dissociation constant (Ka) (acidity) and can be seen as how corrosive the acid is.
Here are a few examples of acids from very too least acidic.
NameFormulaAcidityPopular name
Perchloric acidHCIO4-15Super acid
Hydrocloric acidHCl-5.9Muratic acid
Sulfuric acidH2SO4-2.88Vitriol
Nitric acidHNO3-1.4Spirit of niter
Phosphoric acidH3PO42.2
Citric acidC6H8O73.13
Acetic acidCH3COOH4.76White wine vinegar

But it’s not always a good idea to use the most acetic acid as it will not only eat up your rust, it will eat the metal as well. Therefor most acid are diluted I water to make them less aggressive.
a quick dip in 30% Hydrochloric acid quickly dissolves rust, where as it will take hours in acetic acid.

For instance when I derust gas tanks I use 30% Hydrochloric acid and if the tank is heavily rusted I leave it in the tank for 10min, max 5min for lightly rusted. Where as if I should use any of the weak acids it will take up to 24 hours until the tank is clean.

Strong acid also have a flip side in that the surface it leaves is very prone to flash rust and has to be handled in order to prevent that.

I personally use 30% hydrochloric acid that I buy in hardware stores where they sell masonry supplies as it is used to clean concrete floors before they are painted.
They usually also sells something they call “Tile and clinker cleaner” which is used to remove cementitious adhesives and grouts from tiles and clinker. These products usually contains up to 30% Phosphoric acid and are excellent to use to remove rust under more controlled forms.

Phosphoric acid has one more nice feature, when the concentration is <5% it reacts with steel to form Iron(II) phosphate, which acts as a rust prohibiter and is a good way to reduce flash rust after derusting with a stronger acid.

Distilled water.
Where I live we have excellent tap water that is sourced from one of our great lakes.
The tap water contains hardly any Iron or calcium carbonate, with our climate we use minimal amounts of chlorine and there is basically no fallout of copper from the water pipes. Therefore I also use regular tap water for al cleaning baths and only use distilled water when diluting chemicals.

But if you live in an area with iron, calcium carbonate or where the water works adds a lot of chlorine I recommend that you use distilled water. Otherwise you will get discoloration on your hardware.

Passivate dip times.
In order to passivate the zinc just a 5 second dip is sufficient, but when using Yellow, Olive drab or especially black passivates I have found that I will have to dip the hardware for up to 5 minutes in order to get the coloration I want.

Note!
And always when handling acids, remember! Alice in Wonderland (Acid in water). Always pore the acid in to the water, NEVER the other way around as it can start a boiling reaction and send the solution your way. By the way, use personal protection and I am not talking about your S&W.

/Anders
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Plating at home 18 Jan 2021 10:48 #841939

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Btw, to anyone interested. I placed order with Caswell about 2 weeks ago. Not shipped. No response on ETA.

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Plating at home 25 Jan 2021 11:41 #842376

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Got my kit! Realized I need a heater. Read some people use aquarium tank heaters. Can anyone point to heater they use and how does it work?

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Plating at home 25 Jan 2021 12:29 #842382

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Got my kit! Realized I need a heater. Read some people use aquarium tank heaters. Can anyone point to heater they use and how does it work?


I use an aquarium heater but can't recall the brand. I also use a thermometer.
I have a couple of Z1B's restored, an '80 KZ1000LTD restored, a 1981 KZ550 restored and a 2008 KLR 650 for off road fun. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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