6" over swing arm w/shocks

Hey guys,
need some advice. I bought a 6" over swing arm of ebay last year and put it on ran it all last summer. I ran into a problem when I went to take the misses for a cruise,I couldn't due to the fact of my shocks bottoming out(shes only 110 btw) I switch to struts and she didn't like the it,so bought another pair of shocks,and the same thing,bottoming out. So I put the stock one back on,with the new shocks and it completely changed. The ride was much stiffer. I measured the lower mountig points between the 2 and the 6" swing arms are,of course 6" farther back. Does this change the way the shocks react or dampen and how can I run it with out it bottoming out?
For reference,the mounting points are on the side of the swing arm and not the top like most I have seen. It looks like an ameture built it. Any help would be great. Thanks.
Heres a pick of it with struts.

changing the angle on the shocks too much puts them in a bind,instead of compressing its trying to bend them

I don't know from experience...yet...but I have been told that when you use standard shocks on an extended swingarm that moves the shock mounts on the arm farther back, it will not ride as well. The added leverage basically makes the shock "softer". You need to run a stiffer shock then usual to get the same amount of stiffness from the shock springs. According tho that, you are basically running softer shocks which are causing what you are experiencing. You need to find shocks off a heavier bike or use stiffer springs. Maybe a longer shock would help? Not sure how much change it would take though. Have to experiment a little. Once you figure that out, let us all know so it will help others.

yes racer54 that is what I am experincing! The current shocks are 13.5",which is stock on the stock swing arm. When I had the other one on there it was real soft. I do have a set of 11.5" shocks that I had to lower it before I got the longer swing arm. Could I move the mounting point up on it and use those or would that affect the geometry of the suspension? I am like you LEARNING!


Here is a pic with the 11.5 shocks. Rode real good.


I belive this is a members bike. The idea I am goin for.

picture the swingarm pivoting in a circle,now figure how the position of the shock figures into the circle.
once the shock angle is changed so far it can only try and swing inthe arc with the swingarm untill it binds rather than compressing

Here is acouple more of members bikes with shocks. The white one looks like the shocks are mounted where the turn signal mounts. Is that safe and enough of support for them? Thanks again for input.
Mike

ideally the lower shock mount would be the same distance from the axle pivot as the top is.that creates the circle wireman is talking about.
moving the bottom of the shock further back(out of the circle) should make it stiffer.
moving the bottom of the shock further forward(in towards the center of the circle)should make it softer.
kinda like trying to cut wire with the wire out on the tips,and it is hard to cut.
or moving it back into the back of the jaws and it takes much less force to cut.

if you could build some brackets that would bolt on to the bottoms of your shocks you could clamp them in different locations and get you and the wifey on there and bounce up and down and see how it feels.then re-locate your shock mounts wherever it feels the best.
hth,

leon

Let me just that is one tough looking Kawi! Tell her to get use to the struts, looks so clean

Thanks for the comment etm!!!
And on with the lesson.LOL!
I measured the mounting points between the 2 swing arms and the longer one is only 2" farther back than stock. It ends up where the stock axle is currently. Does that make that much difference? I guess so. Lokking at it from a"fulcrum"(leverage) stand point. Now with the axle farther out,the swing arm has more "leverage" at which it makes the shocks "easier" to move.(Never looked at it from that point.)
So racer 54 you are correct,it would take stiffer springs to get the same rate as it currently is. No just how much,that is the question. Neverthought you would be using geometry on a motorcycle forum( I'd would"ve never thought)
I measured wrong in the 1st post.

etmracing wrote: Let me just that is one tough looking Kawi! Tell her to get use to the struts, looks so clean

Trust me it needs a lot of detailing. It was just cleaned prior to,and the motor was still wet. Needs to be restored. But thanks anyway.

springs are available,eibach or race tech could probably get you headed the right way.it is just a matter of dialing it in now that you understand it.

progressive shocks are good affordable shocks and you can buy the springs separately.that might be an option.

in our eagerness to modify(i am as bad as anybody there :whistle: )we sometimes forget the educated engineers and designers that do the stuff for a living,and were college educated to do so.
then we think we are smarter than they are so that we can go out and make our bikes better.i never took a geometry class and barely slipped passed algebra.
somehow tho i have no fear of building my own swingarm and relocating my shocks and stuffing a big back tire and slapping a late model big brake light wheel stiffer front end on. :woohoo: :lol: :silly:

we can improve these old bikes but you gotta do some thinkin.cause they took some to get here :woohoo: .

leon

p.s. love the 650 ducktail! :evil: good job on that.

531blackbanshee wrote: springs are available,eibach or race tech could probably get you headed the right way.it is just a matter of dialing it in now that you understand it.

progressive shocks are good affordable shocks and you can buy the springs separately.that might be an option.

in our eagerness to modify(i am as bad as anybody there :whistle: )we sometimes forget the educated engineers and designers that do the stuff for a living,and were college educated to do so.
then we think we are smarter than they are so that we can go out and make our bikes better.i never took a geometry class and barely slipped passed algebra.
somehow tho i have no fear of building my own swingarm and relocating my shocks and stuffing a big back tire and slapping a late model big brake light wheel stiffer front end on. :woohoo: :lol: :silly:

we can improve these old bikes but you gotta do some thinkin.cause they took some to get here :woohoo: .

leon

p.s. love the 650 ducktail! :evil: good job on that.

yeah ive got to admit i watched episode #650 of duck tales over and over when i was younger also! :woohoo: