Modern Suspension: How does it handle?

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18 Jan 2011 08:43 #423266 by ferro72
First off I am new to the whole forum and posting thing so my apologies ahead of time if I do something stupid or offend anyone.
So I see a lot of threads about putting modern forks/swingarms on an old bike, but my question is how do they handle. A lot of these bikes have front and rear end combinations from different bikes and I wonder how they work together. There are a lot of factors (weight, weight distribution, wheelbase, etc.,etc.) that combine to determine the handling of a bike. My biggest concern is spending a lot of time and money to build a bike only to find the end result is twitchy and I don't want to ride it (putting around doesn't count) So for those of you with finished projects (I know its never finished, lets say ridable projects) How do they handle? How do you use your bike? Have you taken it to the track? Does the bike have any bad habits? What would you have done different? Any information is appreciated. And could you include not only what suspension you are running but what changes to springrates and damping if any you have made. Thanks!!!

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18 Jan 2011 09:39 #423273 by porchev914
Replied by porchev914 on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
I cannot yet comment from experience, but there are many here that can, and i do not believe I have heard of one person yet that regretted the conversion. Now, those guys might be lying to justify the work and expense :blink: But, I don't think thats the case. The brakes are a no brainer and are superior in every way. Modern foke tubes are much larger in diameter which decreases fork flex and deflection, and more sophisticated dampening/rebound circuits. With the normally shorter forks available, you will change rake and trail......although again, people report sharper, quicker turn in and lighter steering feel. Ideally, you could ride a hybrid bike to see if you like it before doing the conversion. Most of us do not have that luxury though, and do the conversion based on the science, and the hope of improved turning and braking.

FRANKEN Z!
1978 KZ1000 A2A with 08'Speed Triple SSSA and '06 GSXR1000 front end

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18 Jan 2011 09:42 #423275 by testarossa
Replied by testarossa on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
Ok ferro72, let me try and fit this into one post. First of all, my bike is rideable, but I just got my tags recently. As such, my amount of higher speed testing is very limited. I'll have a better idea about that in short order.

What I did was take a 78 KZ1000 A2 frame and braced it similar to the Sanctuary bikes or similar to Tony Foale's bracing suggestions. The suspension that I used is all from the same bike. The donor was a Craigslist purchase 1995 GSXR 750. I had the whole GSXR right there so that I could measure for the proper attachments. I attempted to mimic the original mount points on the Kawasaki frame to keep the GSXR suspension geometry as normal as possible. It is relatively easy since the GSXR is a mono-shock bike, but still has a double cradle frame instead of the newer bikes that have the engine as a stressed member. So as far as the suspension is concerned, it is carrying around a heavier, and slightly longer GSXR 750.

Now I used Racetech's calculator to determine the proper spring rates for a GSXR 750 that weighs 500lbs. Of course this puts me at the high end of available springs for the GSXR. So I ordered the proper springs from Racetech. I also put a Gold Valve Kit in my rear shock when I rebuilt it. The front fork was rebuilt with the proper weight oil and the new springs.

Now for the ride and handling. First let me say that i love the ride of this combo. It eats bumps for a living. As for the handling, in everything 60 mph or less, I'm quite pleased. As I said, high speed testing will be happening soon. However, I can say that the bike feels like it should handle properly. I will say that you must make efforts to retain as much ride height as you can. The GSXR forks are almost the longest USD forks that you can get. (ZX-9 forks are slightly longer.) I have a corner on the way home that I usually take at a pretty good clip on my zx-10r and I managed to drag my header on the KZ, on the outside of the collector :ohmy: It turns in well enough, but doesn't have the cornering clearance of the newer ninja.

Also, let me say that the improvement in braking is worth the swap for me. My comparable 1980 GS750 with the original, single piston, twin disks in front, and single disk in back can't stop half as well as the KZ with the monster brake rotors and six piston front calipers.

By the way, I plan on using my bike as a grand tourer. I want a big, fast, stable, and confident handling bike. I don't specifically want to do track days, and don't particularly care if I can get a knee down on this bike. That's what my zx-10r is for.

Finally, I'll direct you to speak with mark1122. He has advised me along the way with my project, and he's a really great member. He has a similar build, and has actually done some track days on his bike. I know that he has stressed some key points to me. Keep the ride height as close to stock for the KZ as possible. Brace the frame to keep the dreaded KZ wobble out. Set up the new suspension parts as close to their original geometry as possible. Also speak with Old Man Rock, if you can get his attention. He has had his bike on the road for a while now and can provide some very good, real world experience for you.

Whew!

1978 KZ1000 A2 Click--->Build Thread
2004 ZX-10R
2007 Harley Sportster 1200
2020 Harley Street Glide Special
Angola, IN

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18 Jan 2011 10:35 #423281 by ferro72
Replied by ferro72 on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
thanks for the info so far Btw your build thread (testarossa) is what started all of this for me beautiful bike. I also plan on this being a grand tourer and I like the SSSA look so decided to incorporate it. I think it would be best to use front and rear from the same bike and definitely plan on sticking to oem geometry as much as possible. I am looking for a kz900 but $ is tight right now (did not work most of last year). I did however luck into a free 1993 honda vfr750f last week and it is now in the family room/bike shop (no wife-duh) I am waiting for a friend to bring by some cornerscales this weekend and i want to make notes of the vfr's weight distribution through the suspensions range before I pull it apart I plan on using the suspension and brakes in their entirety So hopefully if I brace the frame right it should perform like a 93 vfr (vfr weighs approx 540lbs fully fueled) hope to have the leftovers for sale next week and a kz900(frame at least) sitting in the family room soon Once again thanks for the info and inspiration Oh and would it be wrong to start a build thread and post pics and share ideas of donor disassembly etc. before I own the KZ???

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18 Jan 2011 10:41 #423282 by kz1k
Replied by kz1k on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
ferro72 quote: "Oh and would it be wrong to start a build thread and post pics and share ideas of donor disassembly etc. before I own the KZ???"

wrong?, no. intesting...? yes.

good luck, and i look foward to your build.

1978 KZ1000A2

"JUST IN! A MAN WHO HOLDS THE WORLD RECORD FOR USING THE MOST DRUGS DIES TODAY. HE WAS WAS ATTACKED BY A PACK OF WILD DOGS HE THOUGHT HE SAW"

WHY FART AND WASTE IT, WHEN YOU CAN BURP AND TASTE IT?

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18 Jan 2011 11:02 #423284 by testarossa
Replied by testarossa on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
Go ahead and start the thread.

Sounds like the VFR might make a good swap candidate. The weight is comparable to a KZ900, and reportedly the VFR is a good handling bike. Heck, you might not even need to change springs.

1978 KZ1000 A2 Click--->Build Thread
2004 ZX-10R
2007 Harley Sportster 1200
2020 Harley Street Glide Special
Angola, IN

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18 Jan 2011 12:50 #423296 by lemo32
Replied by lemo32 on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
I have tried to read about this, not much out there, race-tech offers some options on improving older forks, the ride height seems to be the biggest down fall for me. I think its like anything else, gain here lose there, a whole lot to consider, frame bracing, fork sag, weight, height,expense, etc etc.

1979 kz 1000 06 katana 750

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18 Jan 2011 13:52 #423316 by kz1k
Replied by kz1k on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
lemo32 wrote:

I have tried to read about this, not much out there, race-tech offers some options on improving older forks, the ride height seems to be the biggest down fall for me. I think its like anything else, gain here lose there, a whole lot to consider, frame bracing, fork sag, weight, height,expense, etc etc.

sag, weight, and exspense? reminds me of my wife.:laugh:

1978 KZ1000A2

"JUST IN! A MAN WHO HOLDS THE WORLD RECORD FOR USING THE MOST DRUGS DIES TODAY. HE WAS WAS ATTACKED BY A PACK OF WILD DOGS HE THOUGHT HE SAW"

WHY FART AND WASTE IT, WHEN YOU CAN BURP AND TASTE IT?

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18 Jan 2011 15:04 #423329 by testarossa
Replied by testarossa on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
kz1k wrote:

lemo32 wrote:

I have tried to read about this, not much out there, race-tech offers some options on improving older forks, the ride height seems to be the biggest down fall for me. I think its like anything else, gain here lose there, a whole lot to consider, frame bracing, fork sag, weight, height,expense, etc etc.

sag, weight, and exspense? reminds me of my wife.:laugh:


Zing! Nice one Joe!

1978 KZ1000 A2 Click--->Build Thread
2004 ZX-10R
2007 Harley Sportster 1200
2020 Harley Street Glide Special
Angola, IN

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18 Jan 2011 15:08 - 18 Jan 2011 15:11 #423331 by kz1k
Replied by kz1k on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
testarossa wrote:

kz1k wrote:

lemo32 wrote:

I have tried to read about this, not much out there, race-tech offers some options on improving older forks, the ride height seems to be the biggest down fall for me. I think its like anything else, gain here lose there, a whole lot to consider, frame bracing, fork sag, weight, height,expense, etc etc.

sag, weight, and exspense? reminds me of my wife.:laugh:


Zing! Nice one Joe!

omg, did you say zing? i guess you know who the retarded police man is?

watch this, btw i am not attempting to offend anyone. he is well aware people are laughing.....ZING!


1978 KZ1000A2

"JUST IN! A MAN WHO HOLDS THE WORLD RECORD FOR USING THE MOST DRUGS DIES TODAY. HE WAS WAS ATTACKED BY A PACK OF WILD DOGS HE THOUGHT HE SAW"

WHY FART AND WASTE IT, WHEN YOU CAN BURP AND TASTE IT?
Last edit: 18 Jan 2011 15:11 by kz1k.

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18 Jan 2011 15:49 #423342 by testarossa
Replied by testarossa on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
That was 1:28 of my life that I wish I had back.

1978 KZ1000 A2 Click--->Build Thread
2004 ZX-10R
2007 Harley Sportster 1200
2020 Harley Street Glide Special
Angola, IN

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18 Jan 2011 16:02 #423350 by kz1k
Replied by kz1k on topic Modern Suspension: How does it handle?
testarossa wrote:

That was 1:28 of my life that I wish I had back.

:laugh:

1978 KZ1000A2

"JUST IN! A MAN WHO HOLDS THE WORLD RECORD FOR USING THE MOST DRUGS DIES TODAY. HE WAS WAS ATTACKED BY A PACK OF WILD DOGS HE THOUGHT HE SAW"

WHY FART AND WASTE IT, WHEN YOU CAN BURP AND TASTE IT?

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