Advice on fitting new brake lines

Hi,

Just fitted Goodridge braided brakes lines to my 1979 KZ1000ST, after cleaning out the master cylinder and calipers, and fitting new seals and new master cylinder mechanism. Everything was going so well. I even found a hole in one of the master cylinder rubbers that may have been causing my spongy brake action. Anyway, fitted the new rear brake line first to get a feel for it. No problem. Wasn't sure how tight to do up the new banjos and Clymer manual didn't specify, so went with the standard figure given for the bolt size which was 22ft/lb. Seemed like a lot on a hollow bolt with a hole through it, but I gritted my teeth and tightened it to 22ft/lb with a torque wrench. Filled the master cylinder and pumped the fluid through until no more air came out, and all fine.

Front brake, different story. 22ft/lb seemed too much so I did them up at 15ft/lb with "felt" about right, especially since the old ones did not not seem tight to undo. Filled the master cylinder and started to pump the fluid through -- fluid all over my front mudguard and the floor. Seemed to be coming from just one joint where you have to use a double banjo. Tried tightening it to 20ft/lb, still leaked. Kept tightening it and eventually it sheared (got the broken end out, so one small success!). I have a genuine Kaw manual for my KZ650 and that gives a figure of 21-22ft/lb for the brake line banjos. So I set my torque wrench to 21ft/lb and started to tighten the banjo on one of the calipers but felt it going soft, like it was about to shear so I stopped.

My question is am I doing these up too tight? Or are the banjos I got with my brake line kit of inferior quality (it's a Goodridge kit through a reseller). Any thoughts?

Next question. On the double banjo for the front brake splitter, should there be a washer between the two banjos as well as under the banjo head and at the splitter? There was on the original setup, but there were not enough washers supplied with the kit for one between the two banjo bolts. I tried both with (using an old washer -- all I had) and without a washer here and it leaked both ways.

I am going to have to buy some new banjos and copper washers, but thought I better get some advice in case I mess it up again.

Sorry for long post and thanks for any help.

Paul

You definately need a new washer between the two banjos. also make sure there is nothing on where the lines are being bolted on that will keep the sides from sealing.

i would lose the torque wrench for this job and just go till it feels tight.

banjo washers are soft, so as you bring the torque up it feels soft.

I just did my brake lines a couple of weeks ago. I used the original banjo bolts but bought new Goodridge banjo fittings with the lines. I used new 3/8" crush washers, including between the fittings on the front splitter, and torqued all the bolts to 22 ft-lbs and nothing leaked. Z1 has a package of 10 crush washers you can buy separately from the lines and fittings, but you can probably get them at an auto store also. I might have a couple of extra banjo bolts if you want to try another stock one, but I don't have the one that goes through the two banjos into the splitter.

Thanks for all your advice. Thank you KYKZ1100 for the offer of the banjo bolts. I will pass on this but thank you all the same. I have ordered some new bolts and washers from Z-Power here in the UK. (Get most of my parts from ZIE but in this case the international postage was too high for these few light items.) When the parts arrive I will try again and keep all of your advice in mind.

Thanks again.

Paul
PS This would happen when my other bike is out of action with a nail in the trye! Isn't that always the way!

I removed the banjo bolt that felt soft when I tightened it and had a look at it. The fluid hole has elongated in the tightening direction and there is a "fault line" where I think it would have sheared with a little more tightening. I bought the Goodridge braided brake line kit from an ebay reseller. The hoses look like genuine Goodridge but I wonder if they supplied some cheap and nasty banjo bolts that are barely up to the job. It would explain why the kit was so cheap! Pic below (I hope).
[img size=200]C:\Documents and Settings\Paul\My Documents\My Pictures\20090709\DSCN2787.JPG[/img]

I originally went with Russell brake lines and I could never get them to seal properly as well....

Then I cam across these beauties...
A little more expensive but custom fit lengths, custom banjo angles or fittings and hose and banjo color options...

spieglerusa.com/

OMR

Z1E carries a large selection of brake hoses, banjo bolts, etc.

If they don't leak, there're tight enough. Keep Godzilla away from there. :lol:

FSM specifies 21~22 ft-lbs.

Good Luck!

I had similar experience in the last couple weeks. Torqued to 22 ft-lbs per manual. When I sheared the M/C bolt, I noticed that the crush washers were DEFORMED. That is they not only flattened, but they also were forced into the space between bolt and fitting.
My wrench assured me that hand tightening would work just as well, but I have not been able to get any brake lever yet, in spite of using a vacuum bleeder.

I just reused the stock banjo bolts when I installed new Goodridge lines & fittings.

Finally received my new (genuine Kaw) banjo bolts and washers in the post and fitted them. Did as advised. Left Godzilla on the shelf and tightened by hand. Initially leaked at the double banjo and at one caliper (left the other front caliper fixed with the fittings supplied with the kit since not leaking). Comparing the Goodrigde line against the standard Kaw lines, the banjos are a little thinner on the Goodridge lines, and with the standard Kaw banjo bolts being longer than those supplied with the kit, they could not be tightened down enough to seal. Some will probably not think this a good idea but I solved the problem by doubling up on the washers. I put two washers each side of the caliper banjo, and on the the double banjo fitting I used two washers at each end and two in the middle. Tightened it all down by hand and, at last, no leaks! (Hoghaterkaw, thanks for the tip about it feeling soft when the copper washers squash down; I felt it do that.)

Pumped the fluid through and bled it as per manual, except that I don't use tubes and jars of fluid. Much easier to just let it squirt on the floor and rinse it away when finished. New pads need to bed in and I think there will be a couple more bleeding sessions after a few days use, but otherwise great.

Thanks for helping out with all your advice. Much appreciated.

Paul

I found using the tube and a jar helped me see when the air bubbles stopped coming out and was less likely to suck in more air, not to mention clean-up was much easier and less chance of the nasty stuff getting on anything important. It is pretty nasty stuff. Also letting it sit overnight and rapping the lines a few times the next day got a few bubbles to rise into the reservoir and resulted in a nice hard lever.