I wonder...

Wow , this is a deep subject.
I have done most of this stuff, and it does handle better. but it can never be as good as a newer zx.
The first thing I did was frame gussets, then the zrx rear end then the zx9 front end.
I felt that the zrx arm reduced the flex quite a bit. The biggest improvement for me was the zx9 front end.
Before the suspension mods, if I followed a crack in the pavement I could feel it travel from 1 end of the bike to the other as the forks, frame and swing arm flexed. Less after the new arm and none after the forks. The same thing when u lean in a corner. But now in the corners it takes more undulation in the road to make it flex. It now flexes more in the frame, so it feels more of a harsh short flex rather than a soft long flex. Does that make any sense? It’s a dif feel. A lot of it is the cool factor but there is def an improvement.
It turns in easier than before , due to the 24* rake rather than the kz’s stock rake of 26*.
In a nutshell it gives u more confidence in a turn. But is it worth the money? Very subjective, there is no real answer. I love my improvements for 2 reasons, its cool and its better.
When I ride a new zx6 it is night and day better. They fall into a turn with NO effort. The KZ still needs to be pulled into a turn.

i think the ideal solution for ME would be to have 2 bikes. My trusty KZ for looks (no mods required really),and a zx10 for power and handling.
But since I cant afford 2, I may as well mod the 1 I have. Then I get the cool factor and a little improvement.

pz1morton wrote:

HMMMM well George that is a very good question indeed.
for one myself the kz650c that i race has agpz750frt end and rear along with the wheels.the frame has been raked and brace at the front sides and rear.more rigid frame.has tapered bearings in the crown.has roller bearings in the swingarm.has progressive shocks.fork brace and steering dampner.all this for racing.plus a few other little things. but all in all is a great handling bike on the track.the bike in question that i mentioned is modeled after both my 75 Z1's.but this topic is about street bikes not race bikes,seeing as i had some time to kill.also George hope you and the wife have a great time on weekend.am jealous because there is still a lot of snow up here and the course i usualy go to is still covered in a blanket of white 2-3 foot thick.
Regards Paul

Paul can u elaborate on the rakeing? i know it is common and mine was done before i bought it.it is suposed to improve high speed stability but i dont seem to have an isue with less rake now . all the new bikes have less.
did u race your bike before and after the raking?

I gotta agree with WG regarding tires & shocks. I bought my bike new in '77. The original Dunlop tires were crap for handling. I tried other Dunlops (K91 etc.) without much improvement. I changed to Michelin A48/M48 combo (100/19 frt 130/18 rear) and handling really improved. I started using A48/M48 tires with PZ2 (high hysteresis) compound and handling got great (of course tires only lasted 2000 miles on front and 1000 miles on rear before they were shot). Despite spending $900 per summer for 6 rear and 3 front tires, I became addicted to the grip! The original rear shocks went from barely adequate to poor (I weighed about 165 lbs.) in less than 10,000 miles. I replaced them with S&W shocks (as were being run by Kenny Roberts and others on the track back when) and the combination of those shocks & tires & 15W fork oil made the bike handle exceptionally well considering it was otherwise stock. I don't believe different forks or swingarm would have improved the handling much on the street as I was already dragging the footpeg on the right and centerstand tang on the left leaving very thin chicken stripes on the tires. The bike still handles very well, but I can no longer buy those magic tires which were MUCH stickier and somewhat wider than the current Michelins (Macadam 50/50E)in the same nominal size.

I don't really care how a bike handles really. The 650 I ride all yr around has 65,000 miles on it with original shocks, fork oil? changed 10 yrs ago, weight? don't remember or care really. Original ball bearing steering stem, yes dents and detents and all. I ride around and find all the roads are ruined by painting huge white markings, squares, speed limit markings, you name it and/or roads are all cracked and sealed with gooey rubber that's like riding with $10,000 worth of used chewing gum for the road surface. Added to this sand, rocks, oil from leaking engines, who knows? Once crashed from invisible glass beads someone somehow spilled in a curve. Littly tiny perfectly shaped beads of glass like a million tiny ball bearings under the tires. I ride the old 650 and figure I can take this turn at 35mph whether it handles well or not so I don't care. Probably none of this rambling addresses the original question which is yes, all these add ons are solely for looks, not function.

Probably none of this rambling addresses the original question which is yes, all these add ons are solely for looks, not function.

Ron, you truly believe that?

No flame war here just wondering for reasoning and regards to all the new technologies these manufacturers have developed ($$$ & R&D) for the last 25 years in braking, weight distributions, strengths, tire designs/gripping, suspension set ups and such I can't believe this is only for looks.

Maybe I'm wrong, won't be the first time....

OMR

Well, I've just changed over to a matched set of Pirelli Night Dragons (touring tires, since I'm planning on some long road trips this year). I haven't even worn the nubbies off yet, but I can tell you that when riding, the front tire feels "fatter" which was disconcerting at first, but I really like them so far.

I was running mismatched dunlops before (the rear actually said "Harley Davidson" on it and was hard as a rock and...square???) So I'm sure anything would've been an improvement.

We just got ~8 inches of snow dumped on us, so it will still be a while before I can really wear them in. I'll report back if you guys are interested.

I'm also upgrading my rear shocks soon, and will be fine-tuning my front suspension. Already got the progressive springs in, but I'll take my time this time and get the weight right.

Any tips on adjusting front & rear suspension to match?

I had the latest, greatest roadracer crotchrockets, whatever from the KZs up through the Honda Intercepters, the GPZs, Yamaha FJs, FZs and FZRs til I gave up in around 1990. Yes all these motorcycles were faster than a KZ that came after them. Did they handle better? Yes and no. To me handling is all dictated by having fun riding in a spirited fashion without fear of falling down in a turn and more important being stabil in a straight line. There are those nimble handling motorcycles that won't hold a straight line. I found for definate sure a 18" or bigger front wheel is mandatory for street riding. Reason I know this is I've had numerous 16-17" front wheel motorcycles and they were absolutely worthless as street bikes just for the reasons I mentioned. All the road crap, oil, sand, paint markings are multiplied by leaps and bounds as the wheel and tire size lessens as well as the stability in a straight line suffers by leaps and bounds. In a perfect world like the roadrace course these great handling bikes are great, as street bikes stink. Brakes don't impress me, I can stop just fine enough with a single disc up front and a drum rear. All the motorcyles I've owned I never found a motorcycle any better than the 1982 GPZ1100 I had as a good handling, good running motorcycle that would also run a straight line all day in comfort. Never again will a motorcycle match that one for me.

yes i have to agree with george for the most part ! having built a few old kaws im very aware of the junk shocks,bearings and tires that came as oem equipment on them!:laugh: but in reality the vast majority of these bikes will never be pushed hard enough to need 180 17" rear tire or the sportbike suspension,there wasnt enough road to open these things up that hard 30 years ago and if anything the roads have gotten worse to try and ride on.anyway ive been saying close to 30 years that all these bikes really needed was good tires and shocks,of course ive got no room to talk with my current project my pacemaker will probably explode 1st time down the track!:laugh:

My experiance; Probly my favorite short distance ride, was a 1987 FZ700. it came w/ 110/90-16 front and 130/90 18 rear. brakes were abismal and power a modest 70 hp. still, it was a delight to ride, until your found yourself in a corner a little hot. a slow winter and a doner fzr 1000 resulted in " The Sleeper" Frank is now a 130 + hp close ratio 6 speed, w 110/70-17 front and 180/70-17 rear. Brakes are great, power nearly on the par of current sport bikes. Handling, well, heavy. Last year's project was/is a '77 kz1000A1. nothing special, just 29's K&N's & Kerker. I searched long for Morris 18-19's & fit duals up front. then never happy scored a GSX750 swing arm and a FZR 600 front end. Then it hit me, I was about to do the same thing I'd done to Frank to a perfecly good Period KZ. Maybe a Mk11 project awaits, But I'll ride a tha A1 as is for a while. G

I don't know about all that George...but Canyon Lake is beautiful ! So is New Braumfels. Enjoy your weekend with the Mrs. there loverboy.:laugh: Ut oh.............could there be a little Wiredgeorge on the horizon??????:laugh:

Little wiredgeorge? BWHwhahaha I have an 8 year old grandkid (among the 5 of them). We played golf on the Canyon Lake country club course on Saturday but it was kind of chilly and very windy. We went to an upscale Italian restaurant for a late dinner and had a very pleasant evening at the B&B which is right on the 18th fairway. On Sunday, the AM started overcast and chilly and windy again so we skipped golf and went to San Marcos to the outlet mall where I watched the missus shop. I got some new coveralls for the shop myself. It was nice to get away for a couple days.

To the fella who commented on the S&W shocks... I have a set of BRAND NEW S&W 12.5" I bought from the guy who runs the Barbar Motorcycle Museum a couple years ago. They came without springs and I bought a nice set of Progressive springs and installed them. I plan on using them on a shafty project bike I will work on in the future.

I have not done any of the mods that everybody talks about, but in me pea sized brain, bikes are engineered , handeling is engineered along with comfort ride being a trade off.
Yes there are a lot of things adapted to the bikes,some for cosmetic reasons, others for a racing application.
Dont get me wrong, making something better is not a bad thing, but I wonder how much more improvement could be made with some simple calculations, ie rake angles, suspension travel, and flex.

Got to admit some of these mods look neat as hell