Matching keys on three locksets possible?

Bikes usually have a seat lock, fork lock and ignition switch. Wouldn't it be nice to have one key for all three? Has anybody figured out how to solve this, or has anyone even tried? I know aftermarket IG switches are available. Mine is not rebuildable, switching worn down so nothing grabs internally. It does 360deg and the cylinder pulls out with the key. I have not seen to many fork locks that still work properly, but it would be nice to have that option. The seat lock is neccessary for obvious reasons. Having three keys just rubs me the wrong way. Any brilliant ideas out there?

The three locks are usually the same from the factory. Someone must have switched something at one point.

You mentioned your cylinder pulls out with the key. Your half way there!
Either your cylinder retaining wafer (in the fifth possition once the cylinder is out) is worn, allowing you to pull the cylinder out, or I have found if the key is too long it will engage the retaining wafer thus allowing you to pull the cylinder out.
Once out, you can swap the wafer tumblers (usually only four on a '77 & '78 650) to match another key. Now it depends on which tumblers you have (I believe there are only 4 different ones, 1-4), if you can swap them all to match another key. Sometimes you have to leave one or more out as you will not have the right ones. Each tumbler will have a spring under it as well. Be careful not to loose these.
A key with cutting numbers (which relate to the tumblers) 1234 can be rearranged a number of different ways, ie: 2431 etc.
Between two Ignitions, you may have the different numbered tumblers (having 8 tumblers to work with) to rearranged to the other key.

I am a Locksmith, so this is what I do all the time.

If you give me the Key Code Number on the keys or Ignitions (sometimes it's only on the seat lock), I can tell you what the tumbler numbers are, making it easier to rearrange to match the other key. Or you can just use trial and error, sliping a tumbler in a slot, inserting your key and seeing if the tumbler sits flush top and bottom. If the tumbler doesn't sit flush, it's the wrong one for that possition.

Once you have inserted all the tumblers into possition and they are all flush top and bottom, you can reinsert the cylinder plug by depressing the retaining wafer (in possition 5) and sliding the cylinder back into the Igntion switch. Once in, the retaining wafer is supposed to snap out into a groove, holding the cylinder from comming out again.

Now as far as taking the seat lock and steering lock apart, can't help you there as I've not done this yet. If you match the Ign. to the seat, then that'd help. The steering locks are somewhat useless, as they can be forced and broken when in a lock position.

Post edited by: rstnick, at: 2007/03/03 13:10

Ok, that is very helpful. Thank you. I suppose the fork lock was to keep the honest honest. 833 is one set of the locks on one bike. 801 is the three on another bike, and a third bike only has two unmatched cylinders, an 813 and an 881, no Ign at all.

It looks like the cylinder housing on the one I'm working on is irretrievably worn on the ignition switch. The stops are grooved by the brass cyln tabs, the holding tab at the end is worn off. So if a new oem ignition is purchased, I am going to try to adjust the other two locks to the new one. Think this is a possibility? It is probably not worth the effort, (just another key on the ring if I don't). It's just another small puzzel in the puzzel at large.

On the fork lock assembly, there must be a way to remove the cylinder. Weaseling the chrome door off the steel housing was easy, but the cylinder is stuck in there. I was kind of thinking that with the key inserted in the cylinder one ought to be able to push the assembly out from inside the steering head tube. My bike is totally stripped for a frame paint, so it would be a good time to do this. But that isn't working.

Dang it Rob, all that techno-babble about wafers and tumblers literally gave me a headche and blurred my vision! :pinch:

Rob is right though, if you have 3 seperate keys for the ignition, seat and steering locks then they've obviously been changed.

The key code numbers (should be only 3-digits...ex: 841) for each lock will be located in the following places:
Fuel cap lock - doesn't matter, since just about any old Kaw key will open it.
Seat lock & steering lock - stamped into the "face" of the lock where the key is inserted.
Ignition switch - usually stamped onto the side of the cylinder. The plastic cover that the indicator lights (turn, neutral, oil, stop lamp, high beam) are in will need to be removed to see it.

You can surf eBay in hopes of someone selling a claimed to be matching lock set that will fit your exact model and year bike (the '77 KZ650 locks show to be diff than the '78~ models).
By doing so though, you could be buying someone elses worn out/trashed/mis-matched locks, so that in itself is a gamble.

But if you really want to have matching locks and money isn't a issue, then the best thing I can suggest would be to buy a new aftermarket ignition switch (about $30 on eBay), then remove all of the other locks that you'd like to have keyed alike.
Select one of them as the "main" lock (I'd recommend choosing the NEW ignition switch, since the key and tumblers will be fresh and not worn), then take them to a professional locksmith (like Rob) to have them all keyed alike.
Rob would obviously be the best person to give you an idea on what the cost is to have something like this done.

mountain,

With the pin (tapping screw as Kawi calls it) and cover removed from the steering lock, the spring behind the lock should simply push the lock iself outwards for easy removal. After 25+ years though, it make take a little "persuasion" with either a strong magnet or by inserting the key and wiggling the lock enough to get it to pop out.

mountain wrote:

. . .I suppose the fork lock was to keep the honest honest. . .
On the fork lock assembly, there must be a way to remove the cylinder. Weaseling the chrome door off the steel housing was easy, but the cylinder is stuck in there. I was kind of thinking that with the key inserted in the cylinder one ought to be able to push the assembly out from inside the steering head tube. My bike is totally stripped for a frame paint, so it would be a good time to do this. But that isn't working.

Funny you should ask about this. . .

"frok lock removal"

Do me a favor when / if you get it out. . .take some pictures for the benefit of the bunch here.

Kazoo, thanks. I was following you weeks ago when you answered a post similar to mine, but I guess I need to push harder from inside to get it to pop out, it won't come out for now. I'll send a pic when I succeed.

I think the new oem Kaw ign switch ($27 at oldbikebarn.com) and then keying to match the new is the direction I will probably take. I'll have my local locksmith take a gander at it just for grins.

Math question: If there are four tumblers, four different tumbler sizes for each of the four positions, what are the total different keyed possibilities? 256?

I think your math is right, but I don't think Kawasaki did the math as in the 800 series keys, there are only 45 different keys: 801-845 ! :S

I am not sure I'm doing this right, I'm new to photobucket. Bear with me.
I fabricated a pick set and picked the fork lock so it would rotate counter clockwise. It might be the first lock I've ever picked. I read about it once. It worked!

Here is a shot of the internal works of the steel shell the cylinder fits into:

Once the round pall half way down the cylinder shaft is rotated counterclockwise, the cylinder can be pushed in to the steering stem and rotated back clockwise, and the key pulled out. The problem with resetting the tumblers is that the holding mechanism is a brass closure pressfitted into the top of the tumbler box, so I think it might be tough to do. Rstnick, our keymaster, would know. Here is another pic of the brass tumbler keeper:

Hopefully my Photobucke attempt will work here. My frame goes out Thursday for sandblasting. Big days accomplishment: I picked a lock.

Post edited by: N0NB, at: 2007/03/06 07:31

I am not using photobucket the way I want to. It amde the whole post go way right into the dark blue column. I just want to have a short link in red words like I've seen others do. Any tips for a green site member? Any tips would be much appreciated.

Click "Modify" and look at this link

Post edited by: steell, at: 2007/03/06 14:38

Hey congrats on picking a lock!

The problem with resetting the tumblers is that the holding mechanism is a brass closure pressfitted into the top of the tumbler box.

I agree that you don't want to take the cap off the top, as it can be difficult to put back on and stay on. Although it may be possable.
Another method would be to remove (pull out) the roll pin in that slot near the back end, and any other pin or clip back there. You can then push out the plug centre towards the front. The key would need to be turned first, or in your case you will need to pick it again and leave it turned.
Push out the plug centre with a "follower", which is a piece of round stock the same or slightly smaller diametre than the plug. You can use a pencil, pen or something else (needs to be a blunt end, NOT pointed).
Push out the plug with your follower, being careful not to lose the small tumblers as the plug comes out. The reason for using the follower is to hold the Top Pins and springs in place. The Top Pins and springs are in the "tumbler Box". If you do drop a Top pin and spring because you left a gap between your plug and follower while removing the plug, just use a tweezer to reinsert the spring first then the top pin, and then slide the follower to hold them in place.

Now rearrange or change the Bottom pins in the plug to match to the key you want to use. If you leave a pin whole empty (because you don't have the proper pin) you will need to empty the top pin and spring from the respective chamber, otherwise when you reinsert the plug, the top pin and spring will fall into the empty chamber and jamb your lock! If it does jamb, you can remove the top cap to get out the jambed pins, or try using a small pick inserted into the keyhole to raise the top pin enough to allow you to turn the plug and remove it again.
Careful when turning the plug when a top pin and spring have dropprd into the plug. Often you turn the plug when a spring is half in the top portion and half in the plug. It seems to turn easy at first, but then gets tight, because you've sheared the spring! Turn the plug back if you feel this before the spring gets too jambed. Try to avoid this because now you've jambed it up more and will need to sometimes force the plug out (scratching the plug and housing) or remove that top cap.

Reinstall any roll pins on the back side you removed earlier and your done.

Post edited by: rstnick, at: 2007/03/06 17:22

Sweet use of the english language, StNic. I will print your last entry as a good addition to my priceless reference files.