TOPIC:

yeah ived worked on a lot of knob and tube wiring,safest stuff ever made the conductors were like 12" apart inside the walls! when i was an apprentice the guy i worked under soldered everything still,he always said wirenuts were for people that were too lazy todo it the right way!

Hmmm...he must've been REAL productive. Like we say in the local,"don't work yourself out of a job!" Well, now...I see that we've managed to get this thread WAY off-topic haven't we wireman!!

Post edited by: Kawozaki, at: 2006/11/19 22:12

wireman wrote:
i have also wired more very high strung 100 plus mile an hour drag boats than id like to remember without a failed soldered connection,and i can guarantee there is no comparison in the amount of abuse the wiring a boat takes bouncing across the water at 120 mph compared to what little bit of vibration a motorcycle is subjected to.either way will work if done properly the biggest thing is to have wires tied up and supported i dont care how good you crimp something or solder something if it is dangling you are gonna have problems with it:whistle:[/quote]

Well now I'm curious as I can understand the vibration issue but what about the wires that have to move thought the left and right swing of the front fork assembly? That's a lot more dynamic than vibration so would crimps (done properly) or soldered ends be more forgiving to a wire getting moved back and forth some at a fixed point connection that can't move? That seems to be the majority of problems where non-corrosion based failures have occurred.

if your wiring harness is tied down correctly there will no affect from the forks turning .you leave a little bit of slack in harness between steering head and headlight bucket to allow the forks to turn,otherwise you have a steering stop instead of a wiring harness;)

Kawozaki wrote:

Hmmm...he must've been REAL productive. Like we say in the local,"don't work yourself out of a job!" Well, now...I see that we've managed to get this thread WAY off-topic haven't we wireman!! <br><br>Post edited by: Kawozaki, at: 2006/11/19 22:12

that guy could solder wire faster than i can twist wire nuts on!

I know about leaving slack but as it has been said before those headlight buckets are rats nests of wires that tend to find a way for one wire to run out of slack it seems.

Was just curious if there was a place that wire crimping was a better idea. Never said what you think of the grease idea??

as long as there is slack in harness the headlight bucket shouldnt be a problem.the dielectric grease wouldnt hurt;)

I probably go through a thousand feet of solder in a year. I prefer a good solder joint to anything, but as much as I'd like to use it on everything, it just is not the best solution all the time. For the bike, it just doesn't seem to last as long as a good crimp. Mostly it's because of weather and vibration. Weather speeds up the corrosion at the solder joint, and there is no way to get around vibration on the bike. Even when the harness is tied down, there is still vobration. Up near the headlight area there is a remarkable amount of vibration. After soldering, the wire is not as strong due to the heat. A good crimp allows a little flexibility where solder does not. I worked in the locomotive industry wiring the control panels and power panels for trains. Everything is done with crimps even though it costs more.

As long as you're starting with fresh wire, good crimp joints last longer. Notice I keep saying a "good" crimp. I have found it almost impossible to make a good crimp without the proper tools. We used $100 crimping tools on trains. Luckily, you can get a decent one for $30. I've seen many bad crimps, but I've seen much worse attempts at soldering.

By the way, I don't crimp everything. I crimp when I can, but sometimes a solder joint is better. Sometimes I solder the ends of a battery cable after crimping, and sometimes a repair needs a solder joint where a crimp won't work.

Either way you choose to go, practice and experience will end up making the most difference.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2006/11/20 02:28

I have done a lot of wiring repair on over the road trucks, and it's been my experience that crimp connectors used in unprotected environments and exposed to road salt are nothing but trouble. I solder, then spread silicone over the bare connection, use heat shrink tubing over that, then apply another coating of silicone over that. I have never had to repair a connection that I made using that method.

For multi wire connectors, I don't think you can beat GM Packard (GM-P) Weatherpak Connectors

steell wrote:

I solder, then spread silicone over the bare connection, use heat shrink tubing over that, then apply another coating of silicone over that.

Wow. That's pretty extreme, steell!

For single connections, I'd probably want to track down some sealed bullet connectors as used in more modern motorcycles. Usually there's only a couple of multi-pin connectors on these bikes. Something like that GMPackard would do well as well as a Deutsch. ITT makes an inexpensive line of sealed connectors too.

Few connections need soldering on top of the crimping - I wouldn't use a purely soldered wire-to-contact connection because it's not strain relieved. At minimum use a crimp connector that also crimps the insulation so there is strain relief. If I wanted extra reliability I'd solder it afterwards too.

When building a wiring harness I'd be more concerned about duplicating the original wire colours or labelling the wires to match the original schematics. Don't you hate it when POs make wiring changes that make no sense whatsoever!?!

Well there seems to be established opinions in both ways of attaching connectors. I've worked with a lot of "sparky's" and compared to mechanical engineers they tend to be more "camped" in the way they do things. That's cool. Nothing wrong with sticking to something when it has worked for you as long as your willing to look at new ways of doing things or you end up using obsolete tech real fast.

When I was with GM and later doing work for NRC/DOE projects, I would see heated arguments between sparky's over the color or even the shade of a wire as to which was best for a job!

For a custom harness I guess you can see the options on how to approach putting on the ends but you will still need to decide if you are going to use some multi-wire cables or all individual wires heat shrinked into bundles for the most part. I'm sure there are pro's and con's to either approach and even combinations of both.

My only recommendation would be to up size at least one wire size on all of the high current items like the headlight and coil power feeds. Buy name brand wire from an electrical supply house as you only want to do this job once (you already know that though as part of your job I'm sure). Be sure to draw it out too beforehand as you don't want to discover you need to run a wire outside your harness because you missed one!

Good Luck and let us know what your approach is to making one.

Post edited by: KZ_Rage, at: 2006/11/21 10:45

KZ_Rage wrote:

Well there seems to be established opinions in both ways of attaching connectors. I've worked with a lot of "sparky's" and compared to mechanical engineers they tend to be more "camped" in the way they do things. That's cool. Nothing wrong with sticking to something when it has worked for you as long as your willing to look at new ways of doing things or you end up using obsolete tech real fast.

When I was with GM and later doing work for NRC/DOE projects, I would see heated arguments between sparky's over the color or even the shade of a wire as to which was best for a job!

For a custom harness I guess you can see the options on how to approach putting on the ends but you will still need to decide if you are going to use some multi-wire cables or all individual wires heat shrinked into bundles for the most part. I'm sure there are pro's and con's to either approach and even combinations of both.

My only recommendation would be to up size at least one wire size on all of the high current items like the headlight and coil power feeds. Buy name brand wire from an electrical supply house as you only want to do this job once (you already know that though as part of your job I'm sure). Be sure to draw it out too beforehand as you don't want to discover you need to run a wire outside your harness because you missed one!

Good Luck and let us know what your approach is to making one.<br><br>Post edited by: KZ_Rage, at: 2006/11/21 10:45

mechanical engineers,the guys who invented terms such as 10 lbs of stuff in a 3.8 lb bag,and if all else fails blame it on the contractor!