78 Kz650 wont start (help!)

Hi everyone, I'm new on this sight and would really appreciate any help that I can get. I purchased a 1978 kawasaki kz 650 D1 SR from a guy for cheap with an electrical problem. The wiring harness pretty much melted when I put in a battery to test it. So I replaced the wiring harness and the voltage regualtor/rectifier and nothing melts anymore, but it still wont run. Now when I hit the starter button, I only hear a click from the starter selenoid. Also, this only happens when I hit the start with the clutch disengaged. In other words, it wont do anything at all unless the cluth is squeezed. And I do have it in neutral. I tried starting it with the kick starter, and that will only turn over the engine with the clutch engaged, so there is no spark. I have already tore the bike down to the frame, just as a learning experience and mostly just to clean it (brake lines, degrease the engine, sprayed out the carbs a bit with carb cleaner). Im wondering if I may have wrecked the starter when I degreased the engine? But there seems to be another problem because the kick start wont work either. Also, none of my indicator lights light up with the key turned on, even neutral. I'm not afraid to tear into this thing, but I'm new at this and I just dont know where to start. I also only have weekends to work on it as I am in college. Any ideas would be great!

Thanks,
davedottnet
1978 Kawasaki Kz 650 D1 SR
New London, WI

Are you sure your battery is charged enough to turn over the engine? Also check your battery connections. If you are carefull you can check the starter by using jumper cables from the battery directly to the starter motor wire(positive to wire and negative to frame).If you don't already have one you will need to get a wire diagram to trace any problems. When you kick start the bike you must be in neutral with the clutch engaged and it should get spark. Check for blown fuses. With a test light check to see of you have power to the coils. As for the indicator lights, check to see if the bulbs are good first then you will need to trace back from there. Hope this helps.

Your bike (as well as a lot of other KZ's) is equipped with a starter lockout switch, which you'll find on the backside of the clutch lever.
It's purpose is to prevent the bike from starting with it in gear and the clutch lever disengaged, which could cause the bike to lurch out from under the rider.
The kickstarter on the other hand is different, the clutch lever should not be engauged. Doing so will keep the kickstarter gear from the engine gearing, and prevent it from actually turning the engine over.

Like harm suggested, check the fuses and the battery condition. As those are the easiest to check and the most likely places problems will develop.

I almost forgot, welcome to KZr!

Post edited by: RetroRiceRocketRider, at: 2006/09/30 13:56

Here is the results of what I just tried:

For starters, the battery is new. The battery conections are good, as the lights all work, and the fuses are good. I tried hooking the positive battery terminal directly to the positive starter wire (and I should add, they sparked a little, as expected when I connected them). The neutral, and oil indicator lights came on even with the key in the off position. at this point the alligator clips I was using slipped off. I put them back on and there was no sparking as i connected them, and the indicator lights didnt come on this time. I turned the key to on then, and only with squeezing the clutch and pushing the start button did the indicator lights come on, but the starter still did nothing. I took my starter wire off for a bit, thinking. I put them back on with the key off, and this time they sparked again, and the indicator lights came on. I turned the key on, squeezed the clutch and pushed the start button, and I melted the main fuse.

Also, I need to get an test light to test the coils, but I tested for spark while kick starting off of both coils (spark plugs 1 & 4) and there was no spark, this leads me to believe that it isnt the coils, as I doubt both would go at the same time.

Thanks for the quick responses and help already, guys, I appreciate it.

davedottnet

Welcome Dave.
Try this Electrical Fault Finding Chart to help find some potential problems.

Sounds like your elec. system needs a good going over.

Do you have a manual for your bike? It'd be a big help as well. You could get a used one on ebay for a good price.

Post edited by: rstnick, at: 2006/09/30 19:47

You say the battery is new. Has it been charged? Try jumping it from a car (not running). If that works, your battery has a weak charge. It not, try shorting the solenoid. I've never done it on a bike, but many times on a car. You take something like two screwdrivers or a pair of pliers & short across the current carrying terminals of the solenoid. If it turns over, the solenoid is bad. If none of this works, your starter is bad or the wiring is bad. Verify your connections before replacing a starter.

Well, I'm back at school now, but before I left home I tried putting in a new fuse and shorting the selenoid. I turned on the key and before I could short the selenoid, the main fuse blew right away again. So I am assuming that there is a short somewhere, but I'm not sure why it started shorting now. It still didnt start before, but the fuse didn't blow. I dont even know where to start to look for the short. I did just put in a new wiring harness, and I went through the whole thing. I do have a Clymer repair manual for the bike and it does include a wiring diagram. Also, I am sure that the battery is good, It is brand new and is at full charge.

Also I looked at the Electrical Falt finding chart and it doesnt really help me much because the bike has to be running in order to use it.

If someone wants to look at the diagram and see if they have any ideas for me that'd be great. I wasnt able to upload it at a high enough pixel number so it looks kinda crappy. I'll see if I can get a better one on.

Post edited by: davedottnet, at: 2006/10/01 22:07

Forgive me if I'm giving too much detail and feel free to ask if I'm giving too little.

I've also got a 78 kz650. Things could be worse; I bought a cb750 chopper once that was wired only in blue and since it was a custom job there was no wiring diagram. At least I could be sure that the problem was always on the blue wire.

If your wiring harness is a salvage part, you should test all wires that flex with the fork movement. This is a weak point after 30 years of flexing.

Since you are getting no lights with switch on, I would reccomend you disconnect the switch and make sure you are getting voltage to the main switch. If memory serves you should get voltage on 2 lines to the switch. While it is disconnected, check with an ohm meter to verify that the switch is switching. Also make sure you have a good ground on your battery.

For the next tests, if you use a battery other than the bike battery, put jumpers between the two batteries or remove the bike battery to avoid feeding current between the two batteries through your wiring.

When you kick it with clutch lever out, there should be spark. If there is no spark, verify that the points, coils, and ignition wiring are good. To do this disconnect the positive wires from the coils and run a jumper wire between the positive side of the battery and the positive side of the coils. Then with the switch off you should get spark. If all else is well, it will start with the kick. This bypasses all switches and lockouts; make sure it is in neutral. You will have to remove the jumper wire to turn it off. The positive side of the coils is the wires that go to the same connector.

If you don't get spark, resistance check coils; check points (hopefully you already have); check wires from each coil to their points; and make sure ground side of points are grounded.

The only chance you have of smoking any wires in this process is if a coil is bad. You should probably resistance test the coils first, but I'm impatient and would only bother with this step if my multimeter was close by.

It sounds like your starter is D E D dead. Get a big jumper (I use jumper cables) and run it from the positive battery terminal to the starter wire. This one of the big wires on the solenoid; the other one goes to the battery(the small wire on the solenoid is the switch leg; the switch leg works or you wouldn't hear the click). If the starter doesn't do anything, it is time to dig it out. It can only be ground(you've checked battery ground by now and will have dig down to starter to make sure it is groudned but unless it has fallen off, it is grounded), starter, starter wire(bypass this bugger to once you dig far enough to get to the other end), not enough juice from battery or bad jumper.

Enough rambling for a first suggestion. More suggestions won't be real useful untill after getting results from these tests. Let me know what you find and good hunting. I'll make sure I check back this weekend.

hey Road Rash , i had a Guzzi chopper that was wiring in only orange! i know the nightmare.

Road Rash,
Thanks for all the suggestions. Hopefully something will turn up with one or more of the tests. I wont be going home untill the weekend of the 14th, so I will be sure to try them then and post what I find.

just noticed that your from New London, i myself and a native of Hortonville, but displaced to Racine for the time being. I hang out in Shicton pretty often. Where you going to college?

Matt,

I'm down at UW Engineerville AKA: Platteville. Thats cool you're from hortonville. I know a lot of people from hortonville, and more and more always seem to turn up:) .