KZ 440 Starter Issue

Howdy, fellas!

So excited to see this active community. It's one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on a KZ 440 project yesterday!

So the bike is in good shape. Nice tank paint, free and reasonably clean carbs, no rust, and 8k miles. Electrically she seems solid, everything works except our starter.

So when I first looked at the bike the seller demonstrated that the starter would click and try to turn over but wouldn't start. When he demonstrated this I heard the solenoid click, and a little bit of turn over on the starter. He tried a couple times after but I only heard the click of the solenoid. I checked the engine for oil- good, and pulled the plugs and the engine rotates freely. Took the bike home and couldn't resist digging in. First thing I tried was bridging the Solenoid to see if the starter would turn and it doesn't, but the odd thing was I don't even get sparks when I bridge the solenoid terminals. Shouldn't there be some sparks even if the starter is bad? Don't have a multimeter handy but I can get one (last one is fried sadly... Don't ask!)

I've started the process of removing the starter. As I understand it it's on a chain under the left side cover. Of course the VERY last screw I went to removed was stripped the F$$$ out by a previous owner, so I'm going to have to barrow something to extract it carefully. Just wanted to make sure I was on the right track so far and make sure I didn't miss anything. Hoping the starter isn't too hard to get out! Think I'll end up having to remove the carbs to get to those mounting screws.

Thanks in advance for the help!

Check for voltage drops. Your starter may be ok.
It could be wiring or connections.

Thanks for the reply, brother. I'm a bit of a multimeter rookie, could you give me an idea of what to look for voltage wise? I'm guessing check for current on the starter side of the solenoid and from the switch to the solenoid?

Did you watch the video?
You'll be checking for DC voltage at different points while you push the starter button. You may need someone to push the starter button for you while you do mesurements.
Make sure the battery is fully charged.
The video does a better job at explaining it.
Your voltage numbers should be similar to Dan's.
Remember you have to take the readings when the starter button is pushed.
You'll have to take your measurement at the starter and the battery. His solenoid is actually mounted on the starter. Your solenoid is separate.

Sorry about that, just watched it. The video didn't show up on my phone but I saw it on the laptop!

I've determined it's probably the starter. Multimeter shows correct behavior from solenoid and switch.

Now I'm being tormented in starter hell. I can't get the starter out without disengaging it from the flywheel chain, and I can't remove the flywheel cover because there is one tiny little bolt left behind the clutch cover. Of course ALL the clutch cover bolts are both stripped and over torqued which is just infuriating. There is a deep circle of hell reserved for people who strip and overtorque bolts on their machines.

Need some advice on getting these bolts out safely. I was thinking about buying one of those stripped bolt remover things for a drill (the kind that extracts a bolt by drilling into the head while in reverse) getting rid of the bolts and buying new ones. Any other ideas if that isn't a good one? I can't get them out using anything in my shop

I'd probably drill the head of the bolt out slowly. Soak it overnight in a penetrant when you get the cover off. Slot the bolt with a hacksaw blade and use a screwdriver to get it out. Pliers. Maybe a touch of heat as case is aluminum and the bolt steel. Aim the heat at the case not the bolt, but don't get crazy with too much heat. I'm not sure when aluminum starts to change structure.
I'm having flashbacks from seized fasteners. Just go slow.

or try an impact driver

Thanks for all the advice guys. One step forward. Used penetrating oil and a impact driver with the closest thing I could find to a JIS style bit. I won the battle against all but one bolt that thankfully was on the chain sprocket/clutch cover. I cut the top off it, pulled the cover then got the shank out with vice grips. I then broke the gasket to what I discovered was a WET OIL FILLED STATOR... Lol! :S :S. The contents of that stator cover ended up all over my shop.

I removed the starter chain and performed an in block test of the starter. It rotates slowly here and there, then stops. Definitely a bad starter IMHO. Now on to the scary part...

Next step is getting that damn starter out. Of COURSE the starter bolts are cammed out by some idiot who didn't understand the concept of using the proper bit, and extremely tight. This one is scary because I don't want to harm any threads dealing with the block.

Got a video update uploading, I'll post it here when done!

Here is my update video- My question about starter removal starts at the 3:15 mark.

The screws are likely held tight with corrosion rather than over-tightness. Cross-head screws are used to prevent over-tightening which can happen with hex or allen heads.

Have you ever used the chisel method to spin out screws? I've have very good luck with that method. You tap lightly with a small hammer onto a sharp chisel on the head to rock it back and forth slight to shock it loose, while also hitting it in the direction to loosen the head. Eventually it will spin out.

Antiseize the new screws of course.

To get that difficult-to-reach screw head on the starter, you might need to remove the intake rubber. The problem is that the screws holding those are usually the worst for corrosion and often break off. Then you have to use an extractor, which also often breaks off.

I usually end up drilling extremely carefully on those and then extracting the screw in small bits using tiny hooks etc.


The one on the left you can see came out using the chisel method I described. Note how the cuts in the head come from the side, but are angled slightly to spin out the screw. You have to alternate taps 180 degrees apart to cause the head to rock back and forth otherwise you will just chisel the head off.



The one on the right required fully drilling and extracting in bits. It takes hours and patience, but eventually they come out like this.

It's sketchy, but brainstorming.
I'd try a 20" inch 3/8" extension added to the impact driver. You may need a 1/4" extension to get you past the fins though and smacking a 1/4 extension may not be the safest(wear your safety glasses).
Put a socket on the end with your screwdriver bit.
I do have visions of snapping the head off with my technique.

I would first drown those screws in high quality penetrant for two or three days. Then maybe a day or two more. Once I was sure I had overdone that, I would use a heat gun to really warm them up, then go at them with the impact driver, or whatever will get to them. If you end up removing the head on one or two of the screws, I would re-drench the remaining shaft with penetrant before trying to get them out.
I know that seems like a lot of soaking, but you have nothing to lose, and maybe a lot to gain by being really patient.
Nearly every time I have been impatient with a stubborn fastener, I have paid dearly by creating a bigger problem and a lot more work for myself.

Thanks for all the tips, guys. I'm waiting on starter rebuild parts so I've got a few days to soak. I'm also eyeballing a new starter I found... So either way I've got time to soak them. Do you guys have any recommendations for a penetrating oil?