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TOPIC: 1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition

1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 14:13 #812193

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Cant find anything about the electronic ignition in any of the manuals I have seen, everything is showing points.

Anyone have a link? - Or any clue how to test to see if it has gone bad. The timing is off on the bike, but no clue how to dial it in, and to get a new one is $200. So I would love to be able to test it before I bang the old ebay budget up a little more.

Thank you in advance for your time, this is crazy that I went through two manuals and both are showing the older model points system, but research says they switched to electronic in 1982.
1983 Kawaski 440 Ltd
I promise I wont make it a cafe racer if you help me out.

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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 15:19 #812200

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From the diagrams at Partzilla the 81-on 440s had electronic ignition.
The KZ400.com site has a 440 workshop manual w supplements >> 1980-82 KZ440 manual w supplements
The 81 supplement has the info for the electronic ignition. The 83 440 electronic ignition is probably identical.
The 82-84 KZ750-Twins had the same elec ignition as the 440s, but different timing advancer.
Forum warning: the forums on the KZ400.com site might harm your computer. I haven't tried using them for several years, though.

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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 15:42 #812202

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I would have literally never thought to go all the way to the back, I passed that manual about 8 times, and kept checking the section and finding the pins.

Seriously thank you!

But really no way to test the pickup to make sure it is working properly?
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 16:12 #812204

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There should be resistance checks for the various ignition components. I don't know that much about it, but I think many of the pickups on most KZs are the same or operate the same. but don't quote me on that, though. hee.

ps: the motorcycle needs a good, fully charged battery to run right. I do a headlight high beam test.
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 16:21 #812207

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Its been on a trickle charger, it is completely full.

Miss firing around 3400- 4000, which I am ready is when the advancer take effect.
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 10 Oct 2019 16:57 #812212

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The battery should be load tested. After charging, sometimes a battery can test fine using a multimeter, but fail the voltage test under load.

High beam test (engine off). After charging, the battery should be 12.6 VDC, but a good battery will be higher. Turn ignition switch to ON & turn on headlight high beam (engine off). The voltage should drop to around 12.2 VDC if the battery is good. If it drops below that, the battery may need replacing. If it drops below 11 VDC, the battery is probably shot. These are the numbers I use. I have a Ctek US 0.8 smart charger & VC97 digital multimeter.
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 02 Nov 2019 16:41 #813469

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Battery is showing good, advancer has free motion with no corrosion, looks like the day it rolled off the showroom.

My guesses now are - 1. Weak springs in the advancer?
2. The box from the advancer.
3. I am out of guess.

Carbs are all cleaned, airbox is still on, idles like a dream.

Right at 4000rpms, it sputters and loses power.

Help?
1983 Kawaski 440 Ltd
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 02 Nov 2019 17:32 #813470

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Years ago I had a similar problem. Make sure the fuel line is not kinked at all or blocked. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 06:30 #813480

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If the bike idles cleanly, then the pickup is probably fine. There is a small chance that the added vibration from higher RPMs can make it intermittent, but I wouldn't assume that as my first guess.

The pickup works at all RPMs. The advancer goes from retarded timing to full advanced timing in a short range of RPM. Once fully advanced, the advancer is basically out of the equation. Just use a timing light to see if the advancer moves to the advance position, and that's where it should stay up to redline RPMs.

There are many other things that can cause the hesitation. With a new-to-you bike, you will want to do a compression test, at the very least, and probabl;y a valve-lash check. Then next is to confirm the ignition timing with a timing light per manual. Then move on to fuel flow and carbs.

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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 10:10 #813489

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Compression test came back 109, or what I can assume by the gauge.

Book says 109 -150 is good.

Low end cause for concern? Or move on to checking the valves?
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 12:26 #813493

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Update - Valves are shimmed.

Note - when doing that valves and the valve is on the downswing about to go up, the manual notes it should be a quarter turn to the timing mark, though mine was a half turn.

Still miss firing at 3500-4000.
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 14:53 #813500

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Nowadays, compression that low leads me to believe the gauge is no good. That is very common. The Harbor Freight compression tester is notorious for incorrect low-readings. They need a check valve in the tip to work correctly. They don't have it.

Your 440 does not use shims for valve adjustments. It uses adjustable rockers set with a screw and locknut.

Does it rev past 4000? If so does it get to redline? If so, then the advancer is not stuck at the base timing. It would not rev up to redline.

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Last edit: by loudhvx.

1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 16:29 #813502

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It was a harbor freight one, time to got get a nice one!

My apologies I was calling the feeler gauge the shim, still new at this.

It does rev, with hard acceleration, have yet to try and redline it. If I creep up by a thousand rpms at a time, between 3500 - 4000 I will loose increasing power, and I can turn the throttle probably a quarter of a turn with no change, before it jumps up to five six and so on.
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 03 Nov 2019 16:38 #813506

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zachsnacks wrote: Update - Valves are shimmed.

Note - when doing that valves and the valve is on the downswing about to go up, the manual notes it should be a quarter turn to the timing mark, though mine was a half turn.

Still miss firing at 3500-4000.

`

When anyone checks and sets valve lash on the KZ400/440.
I suggest the engine be at TDC on the compression stroke and set lash at the high side of adjustment [ .007 ].
This because of how these cams wear over time. I have indexed the profiles of these cams and they have excessively
long opening and closing ramps from .000 to .005 lobe lift. This can promote carbon buildup on the valve seats.


.
2002 ZRX1200R
81 GPz1100
79 KZ1000st daily ride
79 KZ1000mk2 prodject
78 KZ650sr
78 KZ650b
81 KZ750e
80 KZ750ltd
77 KZ400/440 cafe project
76 KZ400/440 Fuel Injected

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39120.0


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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 04 Nov 2019 06:51 #813529

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Would you consider it a red flag if TDC of the valves and the timing mark of the advancer is not the same spot?
1983 Kawaski 440 Ltd
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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 04 Nov 2019 17:35 #813554

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If you can get past the hesitation and get to 5000 and 6000 RPM, then the ignition is probably ok and not the source of the hesitation. The advancer is most likely fine too. When the advancer won't advance, the engine won't rev up under load no matter what.

Not sure what you mean by TDC of the valves. The valves don't really have a TDC position that is part of the valve timing procedure. TDC usually refers to the pistons.

Both pistons should be physically at their top dead center position when the advancer's T-mark line is lined up with the pointer. If not, then the advancer must be corrected to the pistons. It's hard to identify the pistons TDC directly. I use a feeler rod of some sort through the spark plug hole. Then I use a visegrip on the crank to rock the crank back and forth when the piston is at TDC. Look where the visegrip is when the piston just starts to move in either direction. Then the center point between the two positions is the crank/piston true TDC. The timing mark on the advancer is usually within 1 or 2 degrees of the real TDC, and that is usually close enough for a streetbike to run without any issues at all.

I suspect your hesitation in that midrange RPM is a jetting issue or carb condition or maybe even a vacuum leak.

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Last edit: by loudhvx.

1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 04 Nov 2019 17:37 #813555

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zachsnacks wrote: Would you consider it a red flag if TDC of the valves and the timing mark of the advancer is not the same spot?


There is no such thing as TDC of the valves.
The KZ400/440s pistons rise and fall together.
When they are at TDC one will be on the compression stroke
and the other will be on overlap.


.
2002 ZRX1200R
81 GPz1100
79 KZ1000st daily ride
79 KZ1000mk2 prodject
78 KZ650sr
78 KZ650b
81 KZ750e
80 KZ750ltd
77 KZ400/440 cafe project
76 KZ400/440 Fuel Injected

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=39120.0


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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 11 Nov 2019 11:54 #813868

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Alright the only thing left is a new set of jets, which I plan to order but have not done it yet.

Video attached, you will see right at the 4000 mark it falls. I hold the throttle completely still and you see it fail, then after about 5 seconds I start to turn the throttle more, about 4 seconds of nothing, then it jumps up and kicks over four, but it sounds bloody awful.

Any guesses?
1983 Kawaski 440 Ltd
I promise I wont make it a cafe racer if you help me out.
Attachments:

    IMG_1694 (1).MOV

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1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 13 Nov 2019 07:35 #813942

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Wow, I can't believe I was able to download that video and get it to work!

That was not under load, but it did finally rev up past 4000, so the ignition is probably ok, at least functional even if not exactly right.

So it will take some carburetor investigation to find out why it doesn't rev smoother.

First thing I would check is the diaphragms to make sure they don't have pinholes. The pinholes are sometimes hidden right where the rubber meets the slide.

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Last edit: by loudhvx.

1983 Kaw ltd 440 Electronic Ignition 13 Nov 2019 08:53 #813944

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Yeah, the upload process was a little clunky, I wish I knew a better way. I had to open it in a new tab to make it work.

Someone suggested inspecting the needle and the needle plug.
1983 Kawaski 440 Ltd
I promise I wont make it a cafe racer if you help me out.

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