Plugs carbon up quickly

  • Robb2018
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08 Apr 2019 10:42 #801803 by Robb2018
Plugs carbon up quickly was created by Robb2018
A little background first... I've been restoring a 76 KZ900 the past year. The bike had an extended arm when I got it with a two position Pingle fuel valve and filter (no reserve) so the PO may have been racing it. It's got a Vance and Hines header and pods. What happens is, it will start if I clean the plugs but will be a hard start, might take 5 or 6 minutes to get it smooth enough to keep running. Once it's warm though it will actually run pretty good for ten or fifteen minutes, and then will start to deteriorate, will run progressively rougher and will die on deceleration. I'll put it away and next time I go to start, i can't get even a single pop out of it. When I pull the plugs I'll find them all equally coated with black carbon. After I clean them it will revert to how it was before.. hard to start but once it warms up will run pretty good on all four with crisp throttle response, and slowly deteriorate from there. I haven't checked the jet sizes yet... anyone know what the right size for the setup with the header and pods? But mainly I'd like to hear any ideas on what's going on with the plugs. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

KZ900; Z1

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08 Apr 2019 10:52 - 08 Apr 2019 12:35 #801804 by Warren3200gt
Replied by Warren3200gt on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Firstly you need to determine which carbs you have on it, vm26 is stock for an a4. Stock pilot in those is 17.5. Stock main is 115.
"If" it has been raced it may have bigger or different carbs altogether. Also check which plugs you have and post the answers other wise we are all just guessing.
Could be plugs are too cool or jets/carbs are too big or mixture screws miles out and thats assuming your compression is good and your valves are sealing or stem seals are good. Generally with pods and a 4 into one 2 up on pilots and 1 up on mains is the start point.
This topic probably needs moving to carbs/engine not electrical.


Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

Last edit: 08 Apr 2019 12:35 by Warren3200gt.

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  • SWest
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08 Apr 2019 12:59 #801811 by SWest

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08 Apr 2019 15:52 #801817 by Robb2018
Replied by Robb2018 on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
This is after running about ten minutes.

KZ900; Z1
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08 Apr 2019 15:53 #801818 by Robb2018
Replied by Robb2018 on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Here are the carbs:

KZ900; Z1
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08 Apr 2019 17:11 - 08 Apr 2019 17:17 #801821 by Scirocco
Replied by Scirocco on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Pilot jets = 17,5 / Main jets 115 / jet needle in the third Slot with stock air box.
Check your jets size and needle Position first.
Check Ignitition Timing and free advancer movement (cleaning and some grease).
Last edit: 08 Apr 2019 17:17 by Scirocco.
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08 Apr 2019 17:20 #801822 by SWest
Replied by SWest on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Float levels checked using the clear tube method? Looks like leakage around the gaskets.
Steve
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09 Apr 2019 02:29 - 09 Apr 2019 02:33 #801843 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
If not already done, would also check valve clearances and adjust to specs.

In order to assure desired fat blue sparks, view sparks with new stock NGKB8ES plugs held against the engine head while spinning over the engine.

What's condition of the spark plug wires? Would use stock metal core ( NOT resistor style wires).

Would toss the "R" plugs and install stock NGKB8ES. NOT "R' plugs.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 02:33 by Patton.
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09 Apr 2019 05:01 #801847 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Simple answer is that it looks like your fuel mix is too rich and sooting up the plugs which leads to the soot coating creating a short to earth down the porcelain and a failed spark.
Cleaning the plugs removes the soot layer and temporarily removes the short.
It's also possible that it is a result of excessive oil burning ( worn bores/rings) which will have the same fouling effect.
Black exhaust smoke indicates over fueling coupled with a sooty exhaust outlet and blue/grey for oil burning.

AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-





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09 Apr 2019 05:34 - 09 Apr 2019 05:46 #801851 by Robb2018
Replied by Robb2018 on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
Problem is I had a friend who's a self proclaimed expert on carbs go through them. I should have done it myself. It doesn't smoke at all so hoping I get the jets right and the fuel screws and that will be that. I'll let you all know.

KZ900; Z1
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 05:46 by Robb2018.

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09 Apr 2019 11:48 - 09 Apr 2019 11:50 #801879 by Robb2018
Replied by Robb2018 on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
The main jets are 120, pilots I can't read.. looks like 20. If needle is in 3rd position with stock airbox, where should it be with pods? Also I should mention that PO was running the Vance and Hines header without a baffle. I've since installed a generic baffle in the header.

KZ900; Z1
Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 11:50 by Robb2018.

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09 Apr 2019 12:04 - 09 Apr 2019 12:06 #801880 by Warren3200gt
Replied by Warren3200gt on topic Plugs carbon up quickly
120 is too big, 117.5 max I would say. Leave the needle in the middle. Then colourtune it. Colourtune will get your low rev mixture correct and thats where the majority of riding is done.
You might want to think about 1 grade hotter plugs also. Modern fuel is full of shite that needs burning off compared to 70's gear.


Z1000J2 somewhat modified!

Last edit: 09 Apr 2019 12:06 by Warren3200gt.
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