Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
  • Page:
  • 1

TOPIC:

Ignition issues z500 b3 18 Feb 2017 14:31 #754512

  • Lajning
  • Lajning's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 23
  • Thank you received: 0
Hello guys

Some of you might have seen my other topic in the build section. I'm doing a cafe racer build on my '81 kz500.

In the process, I've relocated most of the electrics to a freshly built tray that will sit under my new seat. In doing so, I've shortened some wires, and lengthened others. All joints have been done properly with twisted wires, solder and heat shrink. All in all, I've removed all ignition components from the bike, done some mods on the bike, and then mounted it all back. But somehow in the process, I've lost my spark. The bike ran fine before I started tearing it apart. The only thing I've removed is the side stand killswitch.

Wiring: The stand killswitch had 4 wires. 2 black, 1 blue/white, 1 orange/green. With the two black connected to eachother on the bike side of the connector, the starter engages and engine turn over, no spark. With the two disconnected, nothing happens when you push the start button.

The blue/white; orange/green cables are not connected to anything, engine turns over. If I connect them to eachother, engine turns over. With the two connected, black cables disconnected, nothing happens.

These two wires run into a small square box with no markings that is not present on my wiring diagram. It has 4 wires in total. The other two are a black and a yellow from the pickup coils. See attached photo. switch. If I use my ohm meter on the cables, I get current through both the yellow and the black wire when measured at the two connectors.

The orange/green cable runs all the way up to the left handcontrols to a switch named "side stand". This is as I've read used to bypass the killswitch. Can't find any wire leading back from it.

I have 12V on both ignition coils.

I also did some measuring on the IC igniter. Battery connected, ignition on. If i disconnect the black/yellow/red/blue connector I've got 12v on all 4 pins coming out of the igniter. On the other connector, I've got 12V on the green/black and yellow/red.


I'm checking for spark by holding spark plug to a bare metal spot on the head. Have tried using starting fluid with no result.
Kawasaki Z500 1981
Suzuki Sv650s 2003 (ooops)
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Ignition issues z500 b3 19 Feb 2017 15:22 #754592

  • loudhvx
  • loudhvx's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 10868
  • Thank you received: 1613
That box does not look to be from your bike, but maybe added by another owner. The wires labeled "igniter" should be the pigtail lead coming from the pickup plate and they should connect to the igniter. However it appears the pickup harness was cut-off or something. Where are the red and blue wires? What does the wiring at the pickup-plate look like? Is it missing the wires? (the pickup plate is holding what the diagram calls "pulsing coils" aka pickups.)

I don't know what you removed, so I don't know what to advise on the starter circuit, but it sounds like you are playing with the starter button wire which goes through a clutch-lever switch (black wires). You can bypass all of that if you are looking to simplify the wiring.

Kzrider has re-sized the diagram, but here is a link to the full size version of that diagram on my site:
gpzweb.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.co...J1_500B3_550A2B2.jpg

On the full-size diagram, you can see (and read) the black starter button wire goes to the switch labeled "starter lockout switch".
You can bypass that by re-configuring the starter button wire to go directly to the starter solenoid's coil connection.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by loudhvx.

Ignition issues z500 b3 20 Feb 2017 09:54 #754659

  • Lajning
  • Lajning's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 23
  • Thank you received: 0
Hi, I was hoping for you to turn up. Thx for your time!

That little black box has something to do with the sidestand killswitch and manual override of said switch. There is a button on the left handlebar control marked "side stand", it connects to the orange wire from the black box.
However, I discovered that the yellow and black wires have been spliced, so there is a permanent connection between the Igniter and pickup coils, regardless of what that black box does.

The only lockout switch I've found is the one connected to the side stand, that one has been bypassed by joining those two wires. There is no electric wire coming from the clutch lever, so can't be a "clutch in to start" kind of deal.

Please note, the bike turns over on the starter just fine. Both coils get 12v. The Igniter pumps out 12V on all 4 pins going TO the pickup coils. Measured with + probe on Igniter, - probe on battery.

What I'm having troubles finding is how that little black box does anything, and since it's not present on the wiring diagram, I'm not really sure how it's supposed to work either. If anyone have a diagram for an UK/West german/Swedish z500, please let me know!

I'm on my way to the garage in a few minutes, I shall get some quality photos of all the components and how they're wired. Might help out.

Thx,
Lajning
Kawasaki Z500 1981
Suzuki Sv650s 2003 (ooops)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Ignition issues z500 b3 20 Feb 2017 11:16 #754665

  • loudhvx
  • loudhvx's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 10868
  • Thank you received: 1613
Is it possible you have a handlebar control unit from some other bike? The diagram shows no mention of a sidestand switch on the handle bar control. Could it be the "passing" button you are thinking of?

The box you have, with pickup wires, looks to be a relay that shorts the pickup signals, likely to ground. But it is not on the diagram so maybe it's a home-brew lockout switch. If the wires are spliced such that all four (black, blue, red, yellow) still have continuity from connector to connector, I would simply cut the black wire and yellow wires at the little box. Then confirm that each of the wires has no continuity to any other color wire, and the wires are a straight-through jumper such that the same color appears at the same corresponding pin at each end of the jumper.

Or better yet, if the original pickup wires are long enough, I would leave that jumper with the box completely out of the bike, and just hook up the pickups to the igniter as the diagram shows.

Also, remember, you can check for spark, without cranking the motor, by simply tapping a steel screwdriver on the pickup faces.
If you do that, make sure both plugs of a coil has a path to ground or each other, otherwise you can damage the coil and/or igniter.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by loudhvx.

Ignition issues z500 b3 20 Feb 2017 12:42 #754674

  • Lajning
  • Lajning's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 23
  • Thank you received: 0
Hi, and thanks yet again.

I think that little relay/black box thingy is a dealer install. The switch on the handlebar is located underneath the passing button/horn.
www.sporthoj.com/forum/attachment.php?at...=293473&d=1258391083

I checked that spliced cable on my earlier picture with my multimeter and it shows continuity from each pin to the corresponding pin in the other plug. So I think I'll do as you suggest and cut the sucker off!

I did a little testing with a screwdriver as you describe, and as described in a user manual i had on my computer. I got no reaction at all. Also tried supplying the Ignitor with 12V +/- directly from the battery, also a test described in the manual. Still nothing. I guess this means the Ignitor is toast.

I have one last thing to try though. There's another z500 in my area, same modelyear. I shall try to find the owner of this bike and see if they will lend me their Ignitor to try on my bike. If it runs, I got it 100% confirmed that my Igniter is toast.
Kawasaki Z500 1981
Suzuki Sv650s 2003 (ooops)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
Powered by Kunena Forum