Battery eliminators

I'm looking at replacing the battery on my bike with an Accel battery eliminator. It's a 1977 kz400 will this work? Does any one have experience with this?

Pig wrote: I'm looking at replacing the battery on my bike with an Accel battery eliminator. It's a 1977 kz400 will this work? Does any one have experience with this?

Other then using the battery space for something else, why would anyone remove the battery and use an eliminator?

Pig wrote: I'm looking at replacing the battery on my bike with an Accel battery eliminator. . . Does any one have experience with this?

There are several articles here on KZrider about the prospect of fitting a battery eliminator.
While other members have better knowledge about this, my understanding is that it basically involves substituting a capacitor of the appropriate size instead of a battery.
The capacitor affords only a single one-kick chance to start the engine. After failure to start on the first kick, it's jumper-time because the capacitor is then out of juice.
Another downside is that a capacitor doesn't provide other benefits of a battery such as voltage consistency to electrical components of the chassis and serving as an electrical shock absorber for the electrical system.

Caution -- Never connect jumper cables from the automotive battery of a vehicle that's running to an installed bike battery.

And there are many articles here on KZrider about how to maximize battery life, pros and cons of various types of batteries, etc.

To locate topics in KZrider on whatever subject, SEARCH is included in the menu under FORUM (in the ribbon across top of screen).

Good Fortune!

Plus the kick start wasn't intended as a full time starting device and will wear out quickly.
SWteve

Patton wrote: . . . The capacitor affords only a single one-kick chance to start the engine. After failure to start on the first kick, it's jumper-time because the capacitor is then out of juice. . . .

After failure to start on the first kick, I don't know if "push-starting" the bike might be feasible (in hopes of spinning over the engine enough for the charging system to re-charge the capacitor).

Good Fortune!

It won't matter if you plan to kick start it, start it with the electric starter, or push start it. - NO it won't work. Your 1977 KZ400 must have a battery if you plan to ride the bike. Ed

A couple interesting comments, however my bike only has kick start and has 0 sign of ever having electric ignition. I don't understand my bikes never been chopped but it only has kick start and it's got two drum brakes. Which isn't to spec of a 77 in the manual. Also I was more or less asking for someone with experience putting a batery elimator on this bike. It should technically work.

Pig wrote: ........ It should technically work.

Really? Be sure to let us know the details on how you make an excited field charging system work without the use of a battery. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who will want to know the secret. Ed

What KZ400 model is it? The diagrams at partzilla show a starter motor for the A1 & D4, but I did not see one listed for the S3.

Martin, I think you hit the nail on the head. Assuming it is a 1977 KZ400 with no electric start and a front drum brake It would seem that his bike is a KZ400-S3. Maybe he should add that info to his signature line for future reference. It sounds like he may be looking at a manual for a different model KZ400. Ed

swest wrote: Plus the kick start wasn't intended as a full time starting device and will wear out quickly.
SWteve

The KZ400S models only had kick. No electric start. I'm pretty sure Kawasaki intended for them to use the kick start full time.

But as Ed said, the type of alternator on the 77 S (and most of the early 400's) needs a battery to initially energize.

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On a bike with a permanent magnet alternator, you can use a capacitor to replace the battery. The capacitor is not really being used to store enough charge to fire the ignition for one kick. The energy for the ignition comes directly from the alternator and is used immediately. The capacitor is acting more as a filter to smooth out the pulses. The capacitor is empty before trying to start the bike. On the first kick, the alternator pulses, for one rotation, must charge the capacitor, and power the ignition. Since the capacitor does not need a lot of charge, it can usually happen pretty easily.

The Headlights are the main problem. Before the filament heats up, the headlight acts like a dead short. This will bleed away the energy from the alternator. So the lights must be off when starting. After the bike is running, you give it a little rev, and turn the lights on. The momentum of the engine will keep it turning as the headlight filament heats up. (it only takes a few milliseconds).

Pig wrote: I'm looking at replacing the battery on my bike with an Accel battery eliminator. It's a 1977 kz400 will this work? Does any one have experience with this?

You will need to get a battery. But you can use a really small AGM scooter battery.

You can see it here, hanging under the seat on this Kz400 S2. (We hadn't finished painting yet.)
You can probably get away with an old dead battery. We used this battery for almost 10 years, and we got it used (free).
It only needs a very tiny bit of power to energize the alternator.

I would not use a tiny lithium battery, though, as the regulator is not accurate enough. to prevent meltdown.