Timing advance

  • Variomatic
  • Variomatic's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanks: 1

Timing advance

30 Apr 2016 15:39
#723828
Whilst dining around the KZ today I noticed that it has an "IC igniter". Did some digging and found that this is apparently a device to advance the timing as needed instead of a mechanical advance mechanism. As I found in this post:

www.kzrider.com/forum/13-bike-related/60...-clutch-ideas#723366

So (probably a stupid question), does the 1980 KZ1000LTD not have a mechanical advance? (I can't actually go check myself till Monday, does anyone happen to know?)
Currently participating in the restoration of a 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Patton
  • Patton's Avatar
  • Offline
  • KZr Legend
  • Posts: 18640
  • Thanks: 2100

Re: Timing advance

30 Apr 2016 16:30 - 01 May 2016 06:50
#723835
Variomatic wrote: Whilst dining around the KZ today I noticed that it has an "IC igniter". Did some digging and found that this is apparently a device to advance the timing as needed instead of a mechanical advance mechanism. As I found in this post:

www.kzrider.com/forum/13-bike-related/60...-clutch-ideas#723366

So (probably a stupid question), does the 1980 KZ1000LTD not have a mechanical advance? (I can't actually go check myself till Monday, does anyone happen to know?)

Has the usual mechanical timing advancer with springs and centrifical force operated weight arms.

The IC Igniter works with the pickup coils to repeatedly ground and unground the ignition coils, and depends on the mechanical advancer to tell it when to ground and unground the ignition coils.

For example, when a Dyna-S ignition is installed to replace the stock igniter system ignition, the IC Igniter unit is discarded, and the Dyna-S then relies on the same mechanical advancer.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 01 May 2016 06:50 by Patton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • 650ed
  • 650ed's Avatar
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 15343
  • Thanks: 2830

Re: Timing advance

30 Apr 2016 17:44 - 30 Apr 2016 17:46
#723841
Here's a diagram. Ed

Attachment 00003a-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19.jpg not found

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

Attachments:

Last edit: 30 Apr 2016 17:46 by 650ed.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Patton
  • Patton's Avatar
  • Offline
  • KZr Legend
  • Posts: 18640
  • Thanks: 2100

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 06:03
#723893
Thanks, Ed! :)




Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Variomatic
  • Variomatic's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanks: 1

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 06:19
#723897
Patton wrote: Thanks, Ed! :)




Good Fortune! :)

Ahh ok, that one threw me for a second. I've been spending the last few nights learning as much as possible about carbs and the ignition system, this was the clearest explanation I could find, thanks for the help :)
Currently participating in the restoration of a 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Patton
  • Patton's Avatar
  • Offline
  • KZr Legend
  • Posts: 18640
  • Thanks: 2100

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 06:58 - 01 May 2016 07:01
#723907
During most of the crankshaft's rotation, the "pointy" part of the rotor is away from a pickup. This is when the ignition coil "charges" by having its primary winding grounded through the IC Igniter.

When the "pointy" part of the rotor points at a pickup (actually moves across the pickup), the ignition coil's primary winding becomes momentarily un-grounded (same as what happens when old fashion points open), which un-grounding is the event that causes the ignition coil to "fire" by discharging high tension voltage through the secondary winding.





Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

Attachments:

Last edit: 01 May 2016 07:01 by Patton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Variomatic
  • Variomatic's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanks: 1

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 07:15
#723909
Patton wrote: During most of the crankshaft's rotation, the "pointy" part of the rotor is away from a pickup. This is when the ignition coil "charges" by having its primary winding grounded through the IC Igniter.

When the "pointy" part of the rotor points at a pickup (actually moves across the pickup), the ignition coil's primary winding becomes momentarily un-grounded (same as what happens when old fashion points open), which un-grounding is the event that causes the ignition coil to "fire" by discharging high tension voltage through the secondary winding.





Good Fortune! :)

I understand how points work, this is basics. When I say learning about the ignition system, I don't mean how they work, I mean learning about this bikes specific ignition system. The way points and mechanical advance works is something I learnt about years ago.
Currently participating in the restoration of a 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Patton
  • Patton's Avatar
  • Offline
  • KZr Legend
  • Posts: 18640
  • Thanks: 2100

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 08:58 - 01 May 2016 08:59
#723919
Variomatic wrote: Whilst dining around the KZ today I noticed that it has an "IC igniter". Did some digging and found that this is apparently a device to advance the timing as needed instead of a mechanical advance mechanism. . . .
Variomatic wrote: I understand how points work, this is basics. When I say learning about the ignition system, I don't mean how they work, I mean learning about this bikes specific ignition system. The way points and mechanical advance works is something I learnt about years ago.

"Learning about this bikes specific ignition system 101" -- the IC Igniter that's part of the bike's stock ignition system does NOT advance the timing.

Other than how it works, what else would like to be learned about the bike's specific ignition system?

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 01 May 2016 08:59 by Patton.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Variomatic
  • Variomatic's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanks: 1

Re: Timing advance

01 May 2016 09:04
#723921
Patton wrote:
Variomatic wrote: Whilst dining around the KZ today I noticed that it has an "IC igniter". Did some digging and found that this is apparently a device to advance the timing as needed instead of a mechanical advance mechanism. . . .
Variomatic wrote: I understand how points work, this is basics. When I say learning about the ignition system, I don't mean how they work, I mean learning about this bikes specific ignition system. The way points and mechanical advance works is something I learnt about years ago.

"Learning about this bikes specific ignition system 101" -- the IC Igniter that's part of the bike's stock ignition system does NOT advance the timing.

Other than how it works, what else would like to be learned about the bike's specific ignition system?

Good Fortune! :)

I've been looking for information such as resistances across the coil primary and secondary, points gap, possibility of changing to a Dyna ignition ect ect, just to check little things are in order and to see what I can do with it, thankfully I've managed to find most of what I needed.
Currently participating in the restoration of a 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 LTD

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum